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The ups and downs of tube vs. SS...

I’d like to hear from the people that have had both. Why tube? Why SS? What are the ups and downs of both? How does owning one or both differ? I’ve always owned SS, but also lusted after tubes....
jtweed
jtweed
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
7,068 posts
 
I drive some very inefficient electrostats that have impedance curves that drop to 1 ohm with big class A power amps.
You might be surprised to find that tube amps can manage a load like that. IME many people think ESLs are inefficient and difficult to drive but I find that isn't completely true- they are often more efficient than thought, and their load can be problematic for certain amps, depending on the ESL.

For example Sound Labs are hard to drive for solid state, as you need about 800 watts to keep up with a 200 watt tube amp on the same speaker. This is because the speaker is 30 ohms in the bass, which knocks the solid state amp down to about 200 watts, while a tube amp is unaffected. At the extreme top end a Sound Lab is 1.5 ohms and our amps (which don't do particularly well with low impedances as they are OTLs) don't have any problems with them.

1 ohm (if correct) is not crazy bad for a tube amp because it occurs at 20KHz where there is little energy. So you might want to try a tube amp on the speaker and see. OTOH, Martin Logan ESLs are typically about 0.5 ohms at 20KHz and no tube amp does them well (they sound rolled off in the highs) without a set of ZEROs (www.zeroimpedance.com) to boost the impedance.
1graber2's avatar
1graber2
280 posts
 
first, i encourage you to buy a reasonably priced tube amp to compare to your SS amp. that is the best way to hear the obvious differences b/w the two. 

the tubes give you the ability to tune your sound more specific to the desires of your ear and to "match" our speakers, both sonically and electrically. 

This is a huge topic with thousands of forum pages written. dont get me wrong, I'm glad this thread started, just trying to offer you more outlets to do some quick reading, learn the basics, and get out fo the starting gate. 

GO TO AN AUDIO SHOW!! you will see literally hundreds of SS and amp units. 

also, many of us, use "hybrid" amp that have tubes in the PreAmp and SS in the Amp section. this gives most of us the best of both worlds. but again, whether a SS amp or Tube, it takes learning and practiced to get a good match b/w amp and speakers. many of us spend years playing around with different units and combos to get different sounds.
Its my hobby, I love it!
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
I've been eyeballing this thread for a few days now. Naturally, I've got an opinion or two. 

From what I can tell, most of virtues people are crediting to tubes isn't tubes at all, but rather the product of transformers and simple topologies. For instance, the behavior Atmasphere is attributing to tubes driving tough loads a few posts up has nothing to do with tubes, but how they're coupled to the load. McIntosh transformer couples their solid state amps to achieve the exact same goal. 

Another example would be power JFET output stages. Or VFET, or SIT, or whatever you want to call them. They have the classic triode-like transconductance curves, and if implemented in a simple topology like a SET with proper line loading and all that fun jazz, they sound indistinguishable from triodes. 

As far as I can tell, the magic in tubes has little to do with the actual tubes, but rather how they interact with the circuit. Rarely do you see that attention paid in solid state amps, especially those with 4, 5, or 6 gain stages. I think the reason you see solid state amps pop up from time to time that transcend this debate is because somebody has made real effort in pair parts with circuits to take best advantage of the gain devices. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Uh, when most people talk about tubes in the context of tubes vs solid state electronics I am pretty sure they’re referring to the whole electronics package. It’s an expression. You know, like I like tubes. Or I like how tubes sound. In that vein. 💉 When someone says I like transistors or I like how transistors sound chances are great he is not referring to actual transistors per se. 
minorl
740 posts
 

Just like tubes, different transistors sound different.  Tube equipment manufacturers are very quick to tell you what tubes are used in the products.  However, transistor equipment manufactures typically don't tell you what is being used, the circuitry or topology.

So, as usual it comes down to what you like when you are listening.

I have hear some amazing tube amps and pre-amps. Likewise, I have also hear some amazing solid state amps and pre-amps.  Don't let anyone fool you.  both are great.  I would take either.

It comes down to your style and listening preference.

But, as I have mentioned many times, make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  First, establish a sound you really like.  Second, establish a price range/point that offers products within that price range/point.  Third, then go find tube and solid state equipment that you can listen to, hopefully in your home system or if not, in the store on the same equipment.  Those really are the only two ways you can really tell the difference.

Also, don't let people when demonstrating equipment change other equipment at the same time.  Remember, apples to apples.

Listen to a tube amp on some equipment, then change out that amp for a solid state amp (same requirements and price point), changing absolutely nothing else and listen again. 

some dealers like car dealers have certain models that absolutely are trying hard to sell and will try to set them up so that they seem better than others.  The only way to tell is apples to apples comparisons.

It is difficult, but there are tube fans out there that refuse to hear anything else, not matter how great or innovative the other product is. Same can be said for solid state fans.

I'm a fan of excellent engineering and great sound regardless of whether it is solid state or tube.  Great sound is great sound. Every designer has compromises in the designs and sound of their equipment. Unless the product is a cost no object design.

A good dealer will help you with this if they carry great solid state and tube equipment.  Audio shows are good also, but you can't really compare there.  but fun non-the-less.

enjoy

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