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The ups and downs of tube vs. SS...

I’d like to hear from the people that have had both. Why tube? Why SS? What are the ups and downs of both? How does owning one or both differ? I’ve always owned SS, but also lusted after tubes....
jtweed
jtweed
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
I've been eyeballing this thread for a few days now. Naturally, I've got an opinion or two. 

From what I can tell, most of virtues people are crediting to tubes isn't tubes at all, but rather the product of transformers and simple topologies. For instance, the behavior Atmasphere is attributing to tubes driving tough loads a few posts up has nothing to do with tubes, but how they're coupled to the load. McIntosh transformer couples their solid state amps to achieve the exact same goal. 

Another example would be power JFET output stages. Or VFET, or SIT, or whatever you want to call them. They have the classic triode-like transconductance curves, and if implemented in a simple topology like a SET with proper line loading and all that fun jazz, they sound indistinguishable from triodes. 

As far as I can tell, the magic in tubes has little to do with the actual tubes, but rather how they interact with the circuit. Rarely do you see that attention paid in solid state amps, especially those with 4, 5, or 6 gain stages. I think the reason you see solid state amps pop up from time to time that transcend this debate is because somebody has made real effort in pair parts with circuits to take best advantage of the gain devices. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
Uh, when most people talk about tubes in the context of tubes vs solid state electronics I am pretty sure they’re referring to the whole electronics package. It’s an expression. You know, like I like tubes. Or I like how tubes sound. In that vein. 💉 When someone says I like transistors or I like how transistors sound chances are great he is not referring to actual transistors per se. 
minorl
740 posts
 

Just like tubes, different transistors sound different.  Tube equipment manufacturers are very quick to tell you what tubes are used in the products.  However, transistor equipment manufactures typically don't tell you what is being used, the circuitry or topology.

So, as usual it comes down to what you like when you are listening.

I have hear some amazing tube amps and pre-amps. Likewise, I have also hear some amazing solid state amps and pre-amps.  Don't let anyone fool you.  both are great.  I would take either.

It comes down to your style and listening preference.

But, as I have mentioned many times, make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  First, establish a sound you really like.  Second, establish a price range/point that offers products within that price range/point.  Third, then go find tube and solid state equipment that you can listen to, hopefully in your home system or if not, in the store on the same equipment.  Those really are the only two ways you can really tell the difference.

Also, don't let people when demonstrating equipment change other equipment at the same time.  Remember, apples to apples.

Listen to a tube amp on some equipment, then change out that amp for a solid state amp (same requirements and price point), changing absolutely nothing else and listen again. 

some dealers like car dealers have certain models that absolutely are trying hard to sell and will try to set them up so that they seem better than others.  The only way to tell is apples to apples comparisons.

It is difficult, but there are tube fans out there that refuse to hear anything else, not matter how great or innovative the other product is. Same can be said for solid state fans.

I'm a fan of excellent engineering and great sound regardless of whether it is solid state or tube.  Great sound is great sound. Every designer has compromises in the designs and sound of their equipment. Unless the product is a cost no object design.

A good dealer will help you with this if they carry great solid state and tube equipment.  Audio shows are good also, but you can't really compare there.  but fun non-the-less.

enjoy

deepee99's avatar
deepee99
77 posts
 
@wspohn
I'm kinda the same way. I've got s/s in the man-cave and toobs in the big room. There is a huge variation in the sound of, say, a Bedini s/s amp or an s/s Mac. Ditto with tube amps. My speaks (Tylers) are 90 dB and I listen to damn near anything.
tyray
60 posts
 
jtweet, I did not mention that I am pairing my Parks Audio Budgie Tube Phono preamplifier with my solid state Panasonic SA-HE200 receiver or any other receiver for that matter downstream works well too.

koss_amojan, whatever the magic is with tubes, my Parks Audio Budgie Tube Phono preamplifier at $399 with the pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC/6922’s at $454 beats the heck out of spending a couple of thousand dollars on interconnects and another couple of thousand dollars on a turntable for better quality sound. Not to mention the  $1748 Pro-Ject Phono Box RS MM/MC and the companion Pro-Ject battery powered Power Box RS power supply that I fortunately sold for cost. 

I took a $200 Pioneer PL-600 direct drive turntable (the silver one) and upgraded the headshell with Ortofon LW-800S headshell wires and the above mentioned Shure V15VxMR cartridge with the JICO (Shure) VN5xMR stylus, rewired the tonearm with KAB SuperFlex Tonearm wire and hardwired the phono interconnects with the very inexpensive but value added Blue Jeans Cable LC-1’s with the preamp output interconnects being Blue Jeans Cable LC-1’s also.

I have 2 used Power Sound Audio V1081 subwoofers for left and right bass with again the Blue Jeans Cable LC-1’s subwoofer interconnects.

My front left, right and center speakers are Miller & Kreisel Professional MPS-2510’s with again, Blue Jeans Cable 12 gauge 5000UE speaker wire.

And all these modestly priced components perform flawlessly with each other. And without the Parks Audio Budgie Tube Phono preamplifier with the pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC/6922’s I don’t think my modestly priced system would sound as good.

And the receiver upgrade is the next upgrade for me. It’s just that every time I see an Anthem 1120 receiver on ’Gon I don’t have all the money to pull the trigger, but I’m working on it.

This is the first time I have posted here after years of lurking. Thanks to all you good folks who have posted here to help me make better decisions about that VERY EXPENSIVE hobby of trying to be an audiophile! It is much appreciated!
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