Martin Logan speakers


Are Martin Logan speakers still considered to be high quality speakers?   (I have an opportunity to buy a used pair of Vistas)   I have an old Audio Research VT130 amplifier.    Would it be a good fit with the Martin Logans?  If not, what would be better, but not outrageously expensive?   
jcder
I don’t get what people mean when they say the woofer response lags behind the panel so badly. In Stereophile’s review of the Montis the step response of the woofer lags behind the panel by 1.7 milliseconds. This is a greater lag than many cone speakers but can people really distinguish a 1.7 millisecond response lag from a 1 millisecond response lag? Live music must sound very disjointed to people who can.

Another reason I like MLs is the way the music is totally unattached to the speakers. It would be hard for me to give this up.

I don’t know if it’s true in the case of ML’s ESL panels and their dynamic woofers, but the perception that the woofer in a hybrid speaker isn’t as fast as it’s panels is often more a case of the woofer not "stopping" when the panels do, rather than lagging behind them on the signal’s leading edge---it’s rise time. Dynamic woofers tend to "overshoot", the moving mass of their cones compelling them to keep moving once they have started, and not stopping when they get back to their undriven/"at rest" position, but travelling a little past it, and then finally back their center position. That phenomenon of driver performance is called settling time.

To cure that fault, Richard Vandersteen uses feed-forward in his subs---sending a pre-distorted signal to the woofers, the distortion a mirror image (out-of-phase) signal to counteract and compensate for the known imperfect behavior of his woofer drivers.

Peter Ding of Rythmik Audio used the more common servo-feedback to control the behavior of his sub woofers, though the servo is of a new, patented design. Did you know the performance characteristics and behavior of dynamic woofers, no matter the cost, changes as the materials in the woofer’s construction rise in temperature during use? The Rythmik servo system compensates for the change in voice coil temperature resulting from high excursion, one example of it’s benefits. The Rythmik subs are perceived to "stop on a dime". No boom, no bloat, no fat. One of the few subs perceived as being "fast" enough for use with planar speakers.

And then there is the GR Research/Rythmik Audio OB/Dipole Sub, the only one in the world to combine the benefits of servo-feedback design (one of Brian Ding’s areas of expertise) with those of open baffle dipole speakers (GR Research’s Danny Richie’s specialty). THE best sub for music reproduction currently available, and it operates up to 300Hz, so it can be used not only a sub, but also as a woofer.

Here’s what ML says about the Montis’ woofer:

" Montis uses an extremely precise 24-bit Vojtko™ DSP engine in conjunction with a powerful 200-watt class-D amplifier to deliver a stunningly detailed low-frequency performance reaching down to 29Hz—uncommon in cabinets this compact"

I know that ML speakers do not have the tightest bass available, I have owned speakers with tighter bass, but ML is aware of the problem of the bass lagging and overshooting and work to optimize their bass response. Other manufacturers may do it better, but I still don’t hear an awful, lagging or bloated bass from MLs. I find the bass control to be very respectable and tuneful. Not at all "one note." I do not have golden ears and I’m not a bass freak, though.
I haven't heard the 13A or 15A Expressions yet.

But I do know this about my Montis setup...... Went to 2 Stereo separated REL S3 subs right next to the Montis and tuned them to accommodate the speaker, not overwhealm it.

Have a Krell KSA-200S currently driving the Montis, and with the addition of the 2 RELs, full bodied sound that seems like it would cost four times as much to achieve.

I wouldn't buy too old a Martin Logan speaker.
They are very reliable recently and you can get some great deals on ones that aren't too old. I had A TUBE AMP for 5 years on a set of ML ESLs. Sweet sound, but nothing like Krell amp with my tube preamp combo.
sorry to be joining this conversation so late, but was a wondering what y'all think of pairing a denon avrx7200w with a pair of ESL 9s. will that amp have enough power? i can bi-amp the speakers, but just not sure...

much thanks in advance for your input!