Muffled vocals


I have positioned my speakers every way imaginable and I just can't get the vocals the way I want. They're centered, but they seem like they're in the background.  I want them more up front.  I've tried various toeing methods and room treatment but they still seem a little muffled.  My equipment: Lyngdorf TDAI-2200 integrated, Marantz CD6006, Tyler Acoustics D-20, Anti-Cables, Audioquest digital cable.  I know the recording can have a lot to do with it, but Steely Dan's Aja is known for the recording quality and Donald Fagen is in the back.  My terminology no doubt betrays my lack of sophistication when it come to audio, but I know something's not right.  Any suggestions?
cal91
cal91:  I, like you, have a comparatively basic CD Transport. (wow, I really needed that comma after the 'I', huh?). It wasn't until I purchased a good Dac that I began to enjoy listening to my CDs.
The sound just bloomed; sound-stage, detail, vocals, positioning.
I did have to adjust the room and the speakers for a while to make the sound-stage really wide and deep. I do have an inexpensive tube Pre which probably helps, but the biggest change was getting a good, musical Dac to play the transport thru.
Hope this helps.

Dave


You people are amazing.  I didn't expect this kind of response to my little problem.  The Lyndorf is all digital and my model does not have room correction.  It has analog outputs but no analog inputs. It is connected to the amp with an Audioquest digital coaxial cable. My listening room is small and the speakers are very large.  I'm beginning to believe that the room is sometimes overwhelmed by the two 10" woofers on each speaker.  That said, some recordings sound very good and others not so good.  I have to admit even some vocals sound good.  Nora Jones "Don't know why" and Leonard Cohen's recordings sound clear and upfront.  But in other recordings that are known for their high quality like Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel, and Lucinda Williams, the vocals are weak, volume-wise, and sound behind the instruments.  I have tried the speakers far apart and pointed straight ahead, 5 feet apart and pointed at the listener, and everything in-between.  Currently they are 7 1/2 feet apart and pointed almost at the listener.  I am 8 feet away.  The speakers are 3 1/2 feet from side walls and 4 feet from the wall behind the speakers (I've heard this wall referred to as front and back).  The room is 15' X 15', painted drywall, 9 foot ceiling (acoustical tile), carpeted floor.  There are two windows behind the speakers with curtains.  One side wall has French doors that are covered, the other side wall has a window with curtains.    
Your room is very close to the size of mine, cal91. From what I had read when I was setting things up, I was very hesitant to move the speakers closer to the front wall or further apart.
I finally kept pushing them further out, one week, and now they're 30" off the front wall (to the front of the speaker), and 28" from the side walls (from the center of the speaker), which puts them 8' 10" apart.
They're toed in about 20 degrees.
The sound-stage is now the best it's been; wide and deep; and the vocals are more centered.
However, I've always found that vocals are offset L or R a little, especially if there is more than one singer. One sings to left the other sings from the right. And Elton John's piano is never at center stage.

My ears are just under ten feet from each speaker.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Dave
When I got a new DAC/SACD player, (and pretty new way better speakers) I found using female vocals I could better arrange the speakers to give me a better defined soundstage with perfect vocal reproduction.. ONLY by moving the speakers to find that spot.It was close to where I had them, but without moving them the vocals were still indistinct. It was a matter of inches.
The distance between the from wall and side walls need to be greater. The front wall is for base and soundstage, the side walls are for timber and image . You need to find a good recording like Jennifer Warrens Famous Blue Raincoat where her voice is dead center and adjust your speakers front to back till her voice is dead center. Your speakers at 30 from the front and 28 from the sides are to similar, try further apart and adjust the toe in so you can barely see the inner side of the cabinet. The distance between the speakers and your listening position should be 1.2 X the distance of the distance between your tweeters.

The above speaker suggestion is WASP and takes time to fully understand and get correct but if you take the time you will be greatly rewarded. Speaker placement I believe is another component and is as important has your other primary source,dac/server, TT, pre, amp, power, cables.