CDs Vs LPs


Just wondering how many prefer CDs over LPs  or LPs over CDs for the best sound quality. Assuming that both turntable and CDP are same high end quality. 
tattooedtrackman
While I am weeding my LPs, I have noticed an odd thing. When I play a variety of older LPs, (early 50's Classical) They clearly have a warm, 'tube' sound. Jazz Lps from the same era do not, nor do later Lps at all.   
So i 'postulate' the love for "Shaded Dog' RCA is just the desire for that sort of tube sound created by the equipment used to create the Lps. Personally I find it useless. For me it is like listening to some stereo I owned back in 1965. Where most all other LPs have an amazing clarity and natural sound. Unlike the very warmed over, and rather muddy sound of those overly tube based recordings. I have to admit this all may be just due to worm pressings. and not the actual recordings in a pristine state. Later Shaded Dogs seem more normal sounding.. Just sayin'..
Ticks and pops can be on the surface of the LP, but far more of them are caused by poorly designed phono equalizers that are unstable, resulting in a tick or pop that isn’t actually on the LP. About 95% of ticks and pops have this origin.
I am sorry, but this is complete BS.
Many people think you just need enough gain and EQ for a phono preamp. They are wrong- there is more to it than that.

I was quite surprised when I discovered this to be the case about 30 years ago. Any engineer knows that you use something called ’stopping resistors’ to stabilize a circuit. Otherwise you can get oscillation. If the circuit is on the verge of oscillation, as you see in nearly all Japanese designs used in receivers and integrated amps from the 1960s-1990s (none of which have stopping resistors whether tube or solid state), ultrasonic defects in the surface can set off short term instabilities in the equalizer, resulting in little ticks. This is not a feedback or passive EQ phenomena, nor is it related to solid state or tube as we have seen a good number of solid state phono preamps that are also free of ticks and pops.
The other problem is overload margin, which can also induce ticks and pops. The reason this shows up is the cartridge is an inductor and the tone arm cable is a capacitance, together forming a tuned resonance which can be active at ultrasonic frequencies in the case of MM cartridges and RF frequencies in the case of LOMC cartridges. The resonant peak can be 30db higher than that of the signal in the case of the latter! If the preamp isn’t alright with that, ticks and pops occur.

Ralph, I don’t want to have this discussion. That’s why in my first post I said:

The CD vs LP debate is about preference, not who’s right or wrong. I hope we can get past that old argument someday. Both formats are capable of very good and very bad sound.
Many do see it as a preference. I see it as an engineering problem and a direct conflict with how the ear hears vs how spec sheets are created.

The ear/brain has certain perceptual rules and that is what the debate around CD/LP and tubes/transistors is all about. If you are engaged with the Emperor’s New Clothes, you will think the spec sheet is real and that is what you want to hear. If you know about human physiology (IOW how the ear/brain system works) then you find the spec sheets troubling because its obvious that they are intended to look good on paper while ignoring how sound is perceived.

Here’s an example: all forms of distortion are perceived by the ear as a tonality. We all know about the ever-loving 2nd harmonic that makes tubes sound rich. But what is less well-known is that the ear uses higher ordered harmonics (5th and above) to gauge sound pressure. This is probably because sine waves are very rare in nature where our hearing was developed. BTW this is very easy to demonstrate with simple test equipment.

The industry likes to see very low THD numbers (looks nice on paper) so we use feedback to get rid of those pesky harmonic distortions. The problem is that feedback makes distortion of its own, and because its entirely higher orders, inharmonic types and IMD associated with the feedback node, we easily perceive it as hardness and brightness even though it might only be 0.005%. This is what I mean by the Emperor’s New Clothes.

Aliasing works the same way- the ear perceives it as harshness and brightness. Because this tonality is caused by distortion, turning down the treble to make it go away doesn’t work. My beef with digital is that this is built into the recording. It is very rare to find a digital recording that lacks this form of coloration.

In the analog world this form of distortion is called ’inharmonic distortion’ because it relates to harmonics surrounding a certain frequency. In a tape machine this can be caused by harmonics of the audio signal interacting with the record oscillator. In a digital system, these inharmonics are centered around the scan frequency, and essentially are an intermodulation. I don’t think most people realize how serious a problem this actually can be; intermodulations may not look like much when its only two frequencies, but when a number of them are involved it gets very complex very quickly! This is why intermodulation distortion is so audible and a recording system that has this as an inherent fault is bound to have controversy around it, so its no surprise that nearly 30 years on, these debates are still common.
CDs - Just more practical. I still have CDs that are well over 10 years ago. 

@uberwaltz - Cassettes? haha awesome! They were the best actually :)
I own hundreds of Classical CDs I bought in the mid to late 1980s. Playing some right now!.                          
As for 'practical'. I have been weeding down my LP collection for the past month. MY shelving was six (12"x13") cubes high, and ten across filled with LPs. I wanted to get rid of the top row entirely, and empty out the bottom row. So basically get rid of 1/3 of all LPs. After a month of hard work, I have managed to empty the top row and removed it! Woo whoo! Sold piles to my favorite used record store.And gave away six 12" by 8" canvass shopping bags full of Classical 'junk' to Goodwill. One plus of all the work is I now have enough removed high quality outer sleeves from dumped Rock and Jazz, to cover the rest of the Classical which was half naked. (just finished that task of putting them on this morning) ALL of that has no enjoyment. Just work. CDs ARE way easier to keep.  And I can say having three or so of every Classical title is going to change, but that means I have to listen to all 3 of them and decide which 2 to keep. Half of my future life may be spent completing the task. LOL 
It is supposed to be a hobby, not a life consuming experience.