Law of Diminishing Returns - CD/SACD Players

As Sweringen said of the gimp ascending staircase, "With every step a new adventure."

To those of you that have taken the time to respond, thank you! I was hoping that a few owners of the top tier machines such as dCS, EMM Labs, Reimyo, Wadia, etc would also contribute to the discussion as well. The reason I say this is because I believe it often takes more than a quick A-B comparison of machines to distinguish the sonic differences. I'm not discounting the opinions of those who have had the opportunity to audition the top tier machines, but I think that an audition in someone else's system is not a fair evaluation of a particular product's attributes. We know the sound of our own systems the best. I'm guessing that owners of top tier machines have only moved from one top tier machine to another instead of moving "up" the quality/price (assuming there's a correlation) ladder. Since there is no one "best" player, each of these top digital players vary on their sonic presentation, depending on system synergy and personal preference.

With that said, I agree with Tvad that one's associated components must be capable to revealing the differences in players. I've listened to a $500 Cambridge player and the $2200 Arcam FMJ CD23 and believe there is a big difference in performance. It may not be 4x better than the Cambridge, but the difference to my ears is worth the price differential. I posted this thread because every now and then a new, hot component comes out that is given rave reviews by audio magazines; one such component is the Rega Apollo. Reviewers speak of the Apollo very highly, but they fail to make comments comparing this machine with the very best. I know it's not fair comparing a $1000 machine to a $XX,XXX priced machine, but it would be very interesting to know what we, as aspiring audiophiles, are missing out on. Another example is the $3000 Ayre Cx7e; it's another player that has received critical acclaim/awards. How does this player compare to the best? Magazine reviewers probably don't want to tell us in their reviews because it poses a degree of negativity towards a product that may very well be a class leader at a certain price point.

Martykl and Fatcataudio...Thank you for your comments. It's refreshing to hear that "a $1000 player will give you about 50 percent..."....and to hear that a highly recognized player such as the Rega Apollo is a good player...but doesn't compare to the Cary 303. Those are the types of comparisons that I want to read about.

Most audiophiles, when they're in upgrade mode, want a "step" improvement....a "wow" factor upgrade. The purpose of my thread was to try to determine:

i) how much one would have to spend to achieve the next step improvement (and to also determine how many steps there are to reach the top)

ii) at what price point you one gets close to sonic nirvana without spending five figures ie..bang for your buck.

Past a certain price point, only we can decide how much more we want to pay to extract that extra few percentage points of performance. Once you reach the top tier of players, I would think that differences between them should not bring about a "wow" response. Top tier players are like fine wines; they all taste good, but it depends on your personal preference.

I appreciated the comments regarding modded units. I knew that modded units would be part of the discussion. There seems to be a big concensus regarding the quality of sound from these types of machines. If I wasn't living in Canada, I would seriously consider auditioning these units.

Again, thanks for everyone's replies!

calgarian

Calgarian,

Partsconnexion is in Ontario, Canada and modifies the Denon 3910 for Underwood HiFi in Atlanta. I suppose this is as far from you as Cleveland, OH however. Good luck.

I think speakers make a much bigger differnce. In my experience, upgrading the player has only made very subtle improvements.

I went from a Denon carosel player (300 bucks) to the Rotel 1072, then later I added a Bel Canto Dac2. The improvements were only slight between the additions. I also heard the MacCormack UDP and it was better than the Rotel, but again, only slightly, for 3 times the cost.

I compared the Jolida 100 side by side to the Rotel, same equipment. Each had their strengths and weaknesses. The Rotel was better for Jazz and better recordings with less instrumentation. Clearer and more delineated. The Jolida did better on raucous rock music. Not as crowded, reduced the "wall of sound" effect.

Hammer raises the issue I've been spouting off here on this thread and for the last time. On a clean system, that is both the amp and speakers have purity/cleanness/fidelity/accuracy you will notice the difference between player A and B. It is highly doubtful the Rotel completes with the Jolida/tube outs. I've heard a Rotel, its a very poor source, extremely colored/aweful resolution.
So source is not the single most important component. Speakers come first, then amp, then cdp.
Truly almost every speaker I've heard has its own coloration, and even worse I've heard several tube amps with extreme coloration.
Until you get these 2 components rectified, its pointless to start looking fora clean/HIGH RESOLUTION cdp.
First speakers. Do you have clarity/hz separations? Good, now move on to amp. Have clarity/ fq dynamics? Good , now you are ready to move into finding a high RESOLUTION cdp.
In that order. Do your DD.