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Speaker choice: impedance, sensitivity, and tubes

Looking at most speakers' specifications I cannot help but notice that very few are rated 8 ohms, and most dip well below their nominal specifications at certain frequencies. This makes makes me wonder how audiophiles with tube amplifiers select their speakers. Most tube amps have 8 and 4 ohm taps only, and from what I understand tube amps don't take kindly to dips in impedance. Is there a rule to abide by when selecting a speaker to match well with a tube amp when it comes to impedance?

Same with sensitivity. Perhaps not as important as impedance, but a lot of popular brands out there have disappointingly low sensitivity (85-86 dB). Why is that? I never understood it since the higher sensitivity, the easier it is to drive a speaker without having to have a beast of an amp. Seems all manufacturers should be striving to design their speakers to have higher sensitivity. Is is more expensive to make speakers with higher sensitivity?

Case in point, I own two pairs of speakers, one rated 88 dB and the other 91 dB. The 91 dB pair has an impedance of 8 ohms flat (according to the manufacturer) while the 88 dB pair has a nominal impedance of 6 ohms (not sure about dips). The difference is quite dramatic in terms of volume on my 180 watt tube amps. I often have to crank the volume way up to get sufficient loudness level in my rather small listening room (11x12) with the less efficient pair. That to me is crazy. The speakers are my fall-back pair from my digital past, and knowing how they behave, I'd never purchase them for my all-analog system today.

So as I'm thinking of upgrading my speakers, I'm quite perplexed about finding a speaker that would match well with my tube monoblocks - provide an easy load and good loudness level without strain. I've been considering giving Harbeths a shot, but I'm really turned off by their low sensitivity of 85 dB (30.1) and impedance of 6 ohms. How big an amp would I need if speakers with a sensitivity of 88 dB barely generate sufficient volume with 180 watts per channel?!

Can anyone explain in technical terms how tube amps handle speaker impedance and, secondarily, sensitivity? And perhaps more important from the practical standpoint - how does one select a speaker to match a tube amp?
actusreus
actusreus OP
733 posts
 
Thank you all for your valuable input. Really good stuff.

Roscoe-
I use Rogue Audio tube preamp (with gain adjustment) and monoblocks. I don't think it's a gain issue. My phono preamp also has adjustable gain and I can easily switch it with very little additional noise, but the sound becomes rather unpleasant - I'd describe it as shrill, especially the highs. So it's not just about getting it loud; it's about getting it loud enough while maintaining the right tonal and frequency balance. And to clarify, the loudness level from the 88 dB speakers (Totem Hawk) is sufficient, (about 85 dB) but it seems it's at the top of their capabilities and requires a lot of power from 180 WPC monoblocks, which seems just crazy. (As a side note, this also demonstrates to me how important gain matching for a cartridge is. My Delos sings at 58 dB setting, but shrieks at 63 dB. The gain values are converted from mV so may not be accurate to a decibel, but still I wonder how some people use phono preamps with fixed gain and multiple cartridges.)

Bruce-
Sounds like we are looking for an answer to the same question :) Plus the issue of why so many high-end speakers have low sensitivity and low impedance. I always thought high sensitivity, high impedance speakers would be better than low sensitivity, low impedance speakers even though I didn't have sufficient technical knowledge to fully understand it. So it's very interesting to read Atmashpere's post supported by actual technical understanding of the issue.

I would like to hear a speaker designer's point of view regarding this common tendency in speaker design. If designers such as John DeVore and Alan Yun (Silverline Audio) understand this quite well, why don't others?
bifwynne
2,069 posts
 
Ralph, Al and Actusreus -- if I reincarnate and if my I.Q. is high enough, I would love to be an EE designing speakers and amps. The problem is I have no idea where or what our hobby will be like in the future. In the meantime, I'll keep my day job and just try to pick up as much as I can on the web. Thanks Al for the hperlink -- I'll try to read and understand it.
unsound
6,115 posts
 
...And if the speakers are measured at 2.83 Volts, as the impedance numbers go up, the power (Watts) of a ss amp output is reduced, as the efficiency of the speakers are correspondingly increased. All of which should work towards constant linear speaker output. Also consider that it's easier to make speakers with a more constant lower numerical impedance, than it is to make speakers with a more constant higher numerical impedance. Furthermore, wave form fidelity seems to be an elusive quality for speakers with higher numerical impedance/efficiency specs to achieve.
bifwynne
2,069 posts
 
Ralph and Al, just reading over some of my older threads and re-read this one.

Just thinking out loud here. I wonder how many retail B&M sales people really grasp the electronic amp/speaker subject discussed in this and other similar OPs. I honestly am not making a statement one way or the other because I haven't stepped foot in a B&M store in decades to schmooze or listen to various combos of amps and speakers. I just raise the question.

Out of curiousity, I called Paradigm to ask whether the S8s (my speakers) were designed to work best with SS or tube amps. The tech service rep said the S8s soak up current, as much as the amp can push out. In fact, he said SS was the way to go.

Now, . . . my amp is tube. Would my rig sound even better with a high quality SS amp, I rhetorically ask?? Maybe, just maybe. In the meantime, the rig sounds pretty good as is. I have a great subwoofer, which back-stops the fronts, so if I have low quality bass output, it's pretty well masked.

I would be curious if any A'gon members who are or were on the retail B&M side of the hobby would chime in. I'd sure like to hear their views.
xti16
1,495 posts
 
Out of curiousity, I called Paradigm to ask whether the S8s (my speakers) were designed to work best with SS or tube amps. The tech service rep said the S8s soak up current, as much as the amp can push out. In fact, he said SS was the way to go.

Now, . . . my amp is tube. Would my rig sound even better with a high quality SS amp, I rhetorically ask?? Maybe, just maybe. In the meantime, the rig sounds pretty good as is. I have a great subwoofer, which back-stops the fronts, so if I have low quality bass output, it's pretty well masked.
I have an Octave V70se (70w @ 4ohm) driving Dyn C1 Signatures (85db) and I can turn it up a lot louder than I can stand. Not because it's fatiguing but because for me it's jut too loud. That being said the Octave was designed for 4 ohm speaker and more important the Dyn is very stable at 4ohm. Now my son had Klipsch KLF30's (103db) and holy cr@p could they get loud. With either his Bryston 3Bsst or my Octave. But all I can say good about the KLF's is they could get super loud. Couldn't stand the sound except at super super low volumes. But in general when comparing anything side by side louder will win 95% of the time (short term comparisons).

So would a SS amp sound better. Yes with the right amp. I'd take a Burmester 956 over the Octave V70SE any day. But my Bryston B100sst and my sons 3Bsst were not as good sounding as the Octave V70se with the Dyn's.

But with tubes you can swap them out any change up the sound a bit (warmer - more musical or more linear and detailed).

Last I believe specs are a very general guideline. Any 2 pieces of equipment with the same specs will sound quite different. It's all about system synergy.
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