$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

I just wanted to mention something on the suspended vs non-suspended topic. I own an Oracle turntable and the springy floors in my apartment meant that I had to custom build a solution to isoalate the entire rack I use(Michael Green rack) from this. It finally worked. Now my brother has two turntables, an Ariston and an old Kenwood. He has the same floor problems as I do in his house. Now the Ariston(basically a cheap Linn) bounces when you walk past even though it's a suspended design, while the massive Kenwood table(this thing is heavy!) doesn't care what you're doing. It just plays on without missing a beat. Now I've been told by people that the "Truth" of the matter is the opposite of my experience (that suspended tables are better with springy floors)but I can't argue with results. A friend of mine who's an engineer said that he didn't see any way you could make a blanket statement concerning this and thought the idea that there was hard and fast rule concerning this was ludicrous. He said that you would have to take in all the factors, floor, rack, weight of items, other vibration control and suspension into the equation.

I was looking at Basis tables (probably the 2001 sorry Dan_ed, I probably would've bought yr table otherwise) but with what my own experiences showed me and looking at many high end designs, I decided that I wanted to get a non-suspended table. This thread has solidified the ideas that I have had. To match Artar I will post my decision which is between two tables:

1. Table -Teres 255 or 265 or Galibier Quattro ALU
2. Arm - Shroeder DPS
3. Cartridge - Shelter 501 II

After reading what Doug and others wrote about the Airy I am very curious about this cartridge but the stretch I am making to get the Schroeder arm means that I will try my best to not think about it now.

One other thing I would like to point out here - this remark from Raul:

"I know that I'm not " soft and kind " like you Twl and maybe that's don't help to have a better understanding"

Raul - I would not say this is the matter. It is not that Twl and Doug and Artar are "soft and kind", the fact is that they understand that this is a dialogue between people with common interests. They also understand that there are many relativistic factors here, components, power, rooms, musical tastes and different tastes concerning what kind of sound they want. They put forth their knowledge in the form of a conversation and will explain as needed and let people make their own decisions. They are not here to lecture others on right or wrong. They are not concerned with who thinks they're a biggie smarty-pants or an "expert". I find your tone and your dogmatic approach to be more of an authority control thing and while I appreciate the fact that you care about this hobby, I can't take your knowledge seriously when it's presented as the only "truth" or the only "fact".

I am not an audio expert, that I will freely admit. I have been going to concerts for 27 years and have seen thousands of live concerts of all kinds. I have been collecting records for 34 years. I have years of experience in record retail and used to be a classical buyer for Tower records. I have only been an audiophile for 8 years. What does all this make me? A person who loves music enough to devote a large part of their existence and most of their finances to it. I am trying to develop a system to play back the music I love and I very much appreciate the help I get on forums to make up for my lack of "audiophile" expertise. As an intelligent individual with some experience and knowledge, I have the ability to sort the facts and figure things out. I do learn a lot more when I feel that I am having a constructive dialogue with others and that they are taking MY SPECIFIC CONCERNS into their assessments and not dogmatically pushing an agenda.

I have named those I think do this and there are plenty of others. YOU GUYS ROCK. Thank you.
The rest I tend to ignore but at this point felt that I wanted to weigh in with my two cents worth on this whole thing.
And remember, YMMV, and this is IMHO.
Chris

Raul,

In the conversation that's been taking place during the coarse of this thread, you've been asked to defend your position but you've chosen not to. You've given us a bunch of subjective bla, bla, bla...

BTW, If you like the Linbrooks, you'd really appreciate my Woodmere's.

Rauliruegas- You keep going 'round and 'round and 'round until we're all numb- are you really John Kerry?

Very good choices, Artar1. I have considered most of that combo myself, except I had though of using the Encounter. Best of luck with it!

Chris, no problem about the 2001. Heck, I don't even know what it would do with a wood floor, though I suspect that it would not be an issue. I do agree with your engineer friend, maybe that's biased since I'm also an engineer, that making blanket statements isn't correct. However, I'm also a person who relies heavily on what my own experiences have taught me. This is why I want to get a Teres into my system and see for myself what the suspension/mass loaded stuff can do. Now that Chris is making wooden platters available as well as the 300 series bearing I have a much better chance at getting a very good Teres-based table.

I have tried to stay away from this whole issue with Raul but, Raul, I have to say that I get the impression that you are simply trolling for (looking for) an argument. You do have the right to voice your opinions but you don't have the right to have anyone respond to you. That is all I will ever say to you.

Dear Chris: I agree with you, exept " ..the only truth or the only fact...".

I speak of " live experience ", certainly they don't have it, that's all.

Mr. Dsiggia told me that it can be truth my point of view at $5K, I take my time and give him an answers where he can see it can be truth ( he never give any comment on it ).
You understand about " live experience ", > " beat. Now I've been told by people that the "Truth" of the matter is the opposite of my experience (that suspended tables are better with springy floors)but I can't argue with results. A friend of mine who's ..."<, this is a " live experience " and this is what it matters, not what the other say about.

In the near future you have to try something different because if you don't do it you never know it.

These folks, after 30+ years of " experience ", today are speaking of a low level music reproduction stuff: 103R and 501 II, come on¡. They take 30 years to be here, so: how much more years they need to grow up ( another 30 ? ). This is a non-sense.

They give " congratulations " to each other and for the " new boys ": ¡ Congratulations: welcome to our black hole, we are not alone. Bravo !!!!!!!, You are HERE with us !!!!!."

>>>> " out. I do learn a lot more when I feel that I am having a constructive dialogue with others and that they are taking MY SPECIFIC CONCERNS into their assessments and not dogmatically" <<<<<. Maybe you can't understand my points that's why aren't constructive to you. Hey, the music reproduction is a very serious issue.

Any people can learn if they want to learn and many of you don't want it: lives in a very very small ( not audio/music world ) " room " and don't want to hear any " devil " things.

Dear friends, stay calm and try to change: " just for fun " , what do you have to loose?. Think about.

Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.