Steam cleaning records 2

...does anyone want to pipe in about my question regarding NOT cleaning new vinyl at all as a choice to minimize noise?
Kipdent (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)

Not without Nomex overalls.

Hi Kipdent
I'm so pleased all seems back on track. The social responsibility to rationality prevailed :-)
As to:
>>> does anyone want to pipe in about my question regarding NOT cleaning new vinyl at all as a choice to minimize noise? Any opinions or experiences? <<<

I'll have a mixed report, and I am still not entirely clear what causes the much different result, but I will share my suspicion.

I had more recently bought some new 'Classic Records' at the RMAF. I did the cleaning after I had first listened to them. They sounded very 'smooth' , in fact too smooth, violins had not proper 'grip' (no rosin on the bow etc.) So I went and clean them (I use a Hannl MERS as mentioned earlier). After cleaning I got a shock, the start wax was noisy, there were some more ticks and groove noise about the first 1/4 groove area, plus I could here some ticks that are clearly scratch related. Hells Bells! I had cleaned about 3 and stopped in a panic.
had some long discourse with Günter Hannl in Germany about cleaning fluid, his cleaner etc. no explanation evolved.

It is but a few day ago, that I decided to give it another try and cleaned some more LPs of that batch I had purchased at the RMAF. AND, you go explain it they sounded clearly better than what happened to the first few that had caused my panic. (Not funny to ‘destroy’ 30 pop a piece, I say).

The batch I had cleaned just now has been played some, but not a lot ---- again they sounded lacking in definition, dynamics. I’m sure you know what I mean. After cleaning there was more THERENESS there, no ticks, no added groove noise.

My suspicion? It is pretty well documented but now that Classic had press-plant problems some time ago. In fact it was reported to be related to the ‘lip-less’ mould process. Apparently the lip at the start groove helps with the proper (easier) mould sealing. If there is non like Classic’s process, if things go wrong some vinyl can ‘bleed’ in to the start groove area. To make matters worse, I understand, some less ‘trained’ operators did either cause some mishandling (small, and not quite so small, scratches) and/or did not sort out the minor damaged items for recycle.

So, in conclusion and taking the above into account (Classic is reported to have fixed their production problems) cleaning new record most certainly does improve play-back quality YMMV.

Lastly, I do get NOS records once in a while. The softener of the inner sleeves always has bled out and produced a kind of sticky, creased, patchy looking pattern on the vinyl. It sounds really horrible and one wash will take it off (usually) and that NOS record looks like fresh out of the press.

Greetings,
Axel

What you are hearing are the effects of the mold release coumpounds intermingled with the the vinyl formula used in the pressings.

Vinyl is more elastic than understood by many end-user. Michael Fremer's "Tracking Angle" contains a excellent article on LP composition for additional details.

The "holy-grail" of LP pressings were the early formula's used used to mix small batches of vinyl for classical recordings. Anyone/any Company that presses LPS in today's world is searching for those formulas.

The person that understands vinyl compounds is Martina Schoener , a record cleaning fluid designer who is a paid consultant to Garrard Loricraft Audio.

Martina was among several industry-insiders who observed the Steam Cleaning Process along with Terry O' Sullivan, CEO of Garrard Loricraft,as well as,a friend of Pierre Spray, CEO of Mapleshade Records : That person relayed the event to Mr. Spray who used the information as the basis for Phenophile Steam Cleaning Kit now retailed by Mapleshade Records for $150.00.

According to Martina, she interviewed many of the retired workers responsible for mixing the compounds. Many were interviewed very late in life and most are now deceased. Martina discovered the formulas were tightly held company secrets. She told me they were rarely committed to paper but instead were orally handed down to others in the trades. The European Trade tradition is different from ours and began to break down in the middle 1950's for ecomomic reasons.

Today, no one is really certian what the most exacting formula is comprised of and many chemists are making a good living attempting to reconstruct the "grail".

Steam Cleaning provides a way to remove any leaching compound(s). In my first published article/letter to "Listener" I noted the observation that all record cleaning fluids (known to me) leave a veil, I termed a "sonic-fingerprint". The sonic-fingerprint is the artifact/residue of the cleaning process & is present regardless if the fluid is homemade to Mega Buck. The final step to steaming is a steam rinse to remove all residues .

Stltrain advocates nerl water rinses. I also recommend using a pure water source ; Peak Battery Water ($3.00 a Gal.) ,however; Michael Fremer has mentioned that Aquafina is a extremely pure water source. No vacuum RCM has proven it can remove a sonic fingerprint. That is a fact. Steam has proven to be extremely effective in removing sonic-fingerprints. I believe that rinses may produce and even better finish to the Steaming process.

The above is a short-discourse on why Steam is an effective cleaning agent to vinyl LPS. Steam Cleaning is a process that needs to be followed step by step to get a satisfactory result. Rome was not built in a day & neither can one understand the results of Steam Cleaning without having done so for an extended period of time.

Record Cleaning is as much an Art as a Process , all learned and matured by time, much in the same manner as learning to set up a analog front end.

Axelwahl, thanks for the GREAT response! Very informative. I agree with your Classic Records assessment--their products always seem to be the most problematic when brand new. An interesting aspect of your post is that loose bits of vinyl, maybe even too small to see, can be a real problem on new records, and cleaning MIGHT actually take these bits and rub them into the surface, damaging it. No technique, steam or otherwise, really avoids this risk. I wish quality control were better for these expensive records. The worst one I've come across recently (and surprisingly to me) is the MoFi Sinatra of "Only the Lonely." Huge pieces of vinyl flashing were evident on three copies, and they must have scratched the surface during shipping on all three. I finally gave up and got a store credit.

Thanks again--as analog lovers we're just trying to find the best way to preserve and present our precious records.

crem,

i've tried steam cleaning a few lps, found no appreciable audible difference so was pretty disappointed. will devote the next two weeks to cleaning one batch normal and another batch steam and see if i can find a difference. need to get up a decent test sample otherwise no proper conclusion is possible. i'd simply be jumping to confusions! will do three batches of bout 3 lps each and see. whether i finally use steam cleaning or not i'd like to thank you though for all the help and encouragement extended throughout my searching process :)

regards