Steam cleaning records 2

Different packaging? Does it still have the lead warning on the underside of the box (really dumb place to put it...or smart depending on whose perspective you're considering).

The Perfection Steamer contained lead and had a box which, in California, was labelled with a lead warning.

08-26-08: Stltrains
All Perfection users heres the answer to the lead question. A response from the lab using the phone number on the box stated that lead is in the power cord as Tvad mentioned but not on the outside, as long as you dont chew or cut and rub the inside of the cord on you no problems.

Stltrains, thanks for doing that research. That's very good news. I'll go repurchase a Perfection at a lower cost. Win-win.

But, I'll have to curtail chewing the power cord.

Be certain to do a double blind test with NERL Reagent, NERL High Purity, and distilled water and report back.

Has the issue of mold and bacteria growing in the steamer and accessories been addressed by anyone here?

If so, how?

This possibility was recently brought to my attention, and it seems valid.

08-25-08: Deaf_j
My Perfection steamer box does not say anything about containing lead. Maybe it only has to say it in certain states?

Look on the bottom of the box. That's where the warning label was on mine, which was purchased in California.

Perhaps your state does not have a law requiring the disclosure.

California Proposition 65 is the law requiring disclosure of chemicals known to the state to cause cancer or reproductive toxicity.

But, we're off topic.

I have been using steaming as an initial step, and as a finish rinse. However, the issue of potential bacteria and mold growth in the steamer is one that might require some investigation as both elements would be counter productive to cleaning records.

All I want is something better that the distilled I've been buying at Walmart. I'll let someone else do the Consumer Report. :)
Ho72 (Answers)

How can you know another water is better if you don't test the variants yourself? You're going to spend your money based only on what someone else says or thinks is better?

That makes no sense to me.

Stltrains, have you experimented with a triple rinse with Nerl ultra pure and compared to a double rinse of Nerl?

Have you ever tried a Nerl pre rinse to the Nerl steam cleaning?

I was just asking if you had tried the Nerl triple rinse or the Nerl pre rinse.

I'll take your answer as a no.

My LP cleaning method is less advanced than yours, for certain.

FWIW, Herman, I agree with you. I read your initial post as a valid question which was responded to in a bizarre fashion. Things spun wildly out of control after that.

The heat from steam should also denature protein
matter(just ask a poached egg) but has no specificity for what proteins it's
breaking down. It also loosens or breaks down other biological and non-
biological contaminants enzymes can't.
Sonofjim (Threads | Answers)

IMO, the steam from home hand-held steamers is not hot enough to do this,
nor is the steam applied long enough.

I use both an enzymatic cleaner and steam. I suspect 98% of those who use a
steamer do the same.

Madfloyd, one idea about the short steam time you are experiencing...be certain the top is screwed down all the way. I remember when I first filled my Perfection steamer and turned it on, I thought the top was tightened, but it wasn't. You need to press down firmly while screwing the top down. Otherwise, the top will seem to be securely in place, but in fact it won't be.

Regarding the steam rinse, what you describe using the second steaming in lieu of a rinse is what I did, and it worked very nicely.

8 seconds of steam is plenty for me to clean an LP. I use short bursts of 3-4 seconds tops.

Is this just my imagination?
Jorsan (Threads | Answers)

I vote "yes".

11-01-08: Tonywinsc
Don't ever play your records more than once every six hours. The vinyl needs time to recover.

That's pretty funny.

A few customer reviews of the McCulloch MC1235 steamer.

03-25-09: Harrison_s
Walgreen's is now selling the "Living Solutions" steam cleaner, model #516414, for $29.98. It looks exactly like the late lamented "Perfection" steamer except that it's green instead of red. There is no lead warning on the box, so it looks like it avoids that hazard.

It seems clear that the Perfection steamer was being dumped earlier in 2008 by Walgreens at a fire sale price due to its lead content in the power cord (which another poster identified after a call to the company).

The new Living Solutions steamer is probably identical to the Perfection steamer except for the lead free power cord and new color.

04-07-09: Crem1
Readers : "Sans Lead Power Cord" Hello, THAT was what I was pleading about ... As in LEAD. Again, No fuss, just wash up or glove your hand(s)..

The new Living Solutions steamer is probably identical to the Perfection steamer except for the lead free power cord and new color.
Tvad (Threads | Answers)

THAT was exactly what I surmised.

BTW, the lead is contained inside the jacket of the power cord. You'd have to chew the cord to absorb any lead.

I see Crem1, thank you.

Safety first.

Happy steaming.

Peak battery water, distilled water, purified water, NERL water, and now Aquafina.

Doesn't this incessant fuss over water seem a little silly?

Nope, spending one's time comparing Aquafina to Peak, or NERL, or any other purified water for the purpose of cleaning records is about as silly as I can imagine in this hobby.

So, we are to now accept that Aquafina water is SOTA record cleaning?

I suggest you hit the bong...surely Mr. Fremer has been familiar with it himself in the past.

We bow down to you, O' Godhead of Steam.

Would Edison have steamed?

04-30-09: Crem1
Using water hydrates vinyl.

Really?

If the compounds that make LPs are proprietary, how do you propose proving this statement?

Crem1, water being a secret ingredient of vinyl does not prove water applied after the LP is manufactured hydrates vinyl.

Water runs off vinyl, as it does other plastic.

I doubt applying steam to clean an LP, or water as a rinse does anything to hydrate vinyl.

Crem1, you brought up the topic of water usage hydrating vinyl. It's on the table.

Today, take an old LP and drip some water on it. Let it sit for hours and hours. Want to bet the water evaporates into the air rather than absorbs into the LP?

Absorbed? Are we to believe a vinyl LP record acts as a sponge on a microscopic level?

Someone please cite an article written by an authority on plastics that will corroborate this assertion.

Until then, I am firm in the belief that an infinitesimal amount of water which was not picked up with a drying cloth may remain in the grooves of an LP after wet cleaning, but the water will never be absorbed into the vinyl. Eventually, it will evaporate. Isn't this why some folks place their LPs in drying racks after rinsing the records with water? Of course it is.

Water Absorption % increase 24 hrs @ 25°C (ASTM D570).

The percentage is usually less than .5%, sometimes much less, but it does indicate that PVC *can* absorb H2O.
Ho72 (Answers)

Thank you.

.5% increase in 24 hours?

So, the percentage increase in, say, 5 minutes would be? Negligible?

Assuming one soaked an LP for 24 hours to achieve a .5% increase in H2O, what benefits in playback would one expect to hear?

Before long we will be steaming our records in a hermetically sealed chamber to avoid airborn particles.

Zenblaster (System | Threads | Answers)

Where can one buy such a chamber? Are the audiophile versions better than the industrial versions?

Crem1, you may recall I returned by Perfection Steam cleaner to Walgreen's when the State of California lead warning label was discovered on the bottom of the box.

Since then, I have found hand cleaning with the Audio Intelligent products and Disc Doctor record cleaning brushes perfectly satisfactory. Frankly, steaming never produced revelatory results, although they were certainly worth the $12 cost of the steamer.

Have fun.

Crem1, I answered your question about steaming. Yes, I steamed. I returned the steamer because of a lead warning, and because the method didn't pay dividends worth the time and effort. It was my experience. Kipdent had a similar experience.

Now, you label us frauds?

Nonsense. In your world, no one would offer a dissenting point of view.

Face it. You cannot deal with any disagreement of your pet steam cleaning regimen to which you lay claim. Your petty attack of those of us who no longer steam clean as frauds is evidence of a very thin skin.

If you post in a discussion forum, then you must accept that both supportive and critical comments will ensue.

Axelwahl, an excellent, perceptive post.

...does anyone want to pipe in about my question regarding NOT cleaning new vinyl at all as a choice to minimize noise?
Kipdent (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)

Not without Nomex overalls.

I agree that one should try steaming before making a blanket rejection. Steamers sold at Walgreens are inexpensive. Less than lunch for two at Denny's.

I don't eat at Denny's.

"AQ" is reportly near 99% as pure a Nerl water...
Crem1 (Threads | Answers)

...but what about the +1% of impurities?

Might they adversely affect the records we are so intent on preserving?

Say, here's a fun article about Aquafina:

http://www.the-signal.com/news/article/12435/

Oops...

I might have missed the post where Crem1 compared NERL water vs. Aquafina water vs. distilled water when used in the steaming method.

What specifically are the sonic differences among the three waters when used in steam cleaning, Crem1?

By repeatedly turning the spotlight back upon himself as the "Godfather of Record Steaming", Crem1 attracts critical examination of his method and recommendations.

If you put it out there, you have to be prepared to defend your choices and recommendations with substance.

08-27-08: Crem1
Michael Fremer of "Stereophile" notifed me of his interest in the steaming subject. That began months of z-mails resulting in his testing the method for soundness & safety; Mickey became a reluctant convert. Thereafter, "Stereophile" published Mr. Fremer's articles relative to steaming , even including brief side-bar on steaming in the '03 "Recommended Issue" : In early, 2006 they printed an two part article regarding record cleaning in which they acknowledged me was the person behind the steam cleaning method.

Since before then and after, my phone hasn't stopped ringing...

The person responsible for a method is open to questions regarding the method.

Crem1 has still not responded to my question regarding a comparison between NERL, Aquafina and distilled water, and the sonic differences between them.

Since Crem1 proposes Aquafina, and he is the expert in the steaming method, the question seems reasonable.

Mrstark, every one of my posts in this thread is subject to moderator approval before it's posted. Since none have been censored, it appears Audiogon is fine with the content.

Tvad if you are so interested in the differences in the 3 waters you keep mentioning why dont you try using them in your method of cleaning vinyl and report back to us on your findings.
Stltrains (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)

I'm satisfied with distilled water.

Unless there's a compelling reason to change, then I'll stay with distilled water. This is why Crem1's input is of value (or anyone else who cares to do a comparison).

05-20-09: Srwooten
But I prefer Coke...

Hmm...Coke and steam cleaning...why not? Coke is known to be a good grease remover/ household cleaner.

Relax Crem1. You take yourself and this topic way too seriously. My Coke comment was referring to Swooten's Coke comment, and it had nothing to do with mocking Pepsi Co or making a negative remark against Aquafina. That's just a ridiculous accusation.

I expect the topic of using Aquafina water to steam clean records is well down the priority list at Pepsi Co.

You'll notice the link I posted was an Urban Legends website. Debunking urban myth. Pepsi Cola, by the way, has also been recommended along with Coke as a cleaning product. Something to do with the citric acid content. Again, it's been debunked if the urban myth reports are correct.

If Aquafina works for steamers, then that's terrific. I'm still interested to learn from those who are into experimenting with different waters, how the sonic results of using Aquafina compares with NERL and distilled water.

The Mapleshade steamer has an identical appearance to the SteamFast hand held steamer sold on Amazon.com (only 1 refurbished unit remains).

Many of these small hand held steamers (Perfection, Living Solutions, SteamFast) are now difficult to find.

05-21-09: Zenblaster
Many of these small hand held steamers (Perfection, Living Solutions, SteamFast) are now difficult to find.

Tvad- Do you know why? Should I grab a spare while I still have access to them?

I don't know why. All I know is a search of the Walgreen's website doesn't return any results. I'm sure you know Walgreen's was the retailer for both the Perfection and Living Solutions steamers. Crem1 has commented earlier in this thread about having a supply source.

By using the Casco Nerl I feel that I am doing my part to clean and protect my vinyl without introducing more contaminants than I started with.
Zenblaster (System | Threads | Answers)

This seems to be the central reasoning behind using specific waters. My curiosity surrounds the importance of using water with fewer contaminants if no differences can be heard during playback of the record.

Also, if one's goal is the preservation of vinyl records by cleaning with water containing fewest contaminants, then why would one compromise by using anything other than the purest water available?

... in the olden days car collectors used coke to remove rust from chrome, first brought to my attention way back in the 70's by a marketing professor of mine, who was into vintage cars.
Chashas1 (Threads | Answers)

I read about the use of Coke for cleaning rust from chrome. Interesting.
I once read an article that suggested using Coke to clean grease stains from driveways.

Having read the Urban Myths webpage, I wonder how much of this is true. I've yet to find anyone who has personally tried Coke to clean driveway grease or to remove rust from chrome.

It really steams me.

I used to steam clean but got tired of having to dry off labels...
Madfloyd (Threads | Answers)

During the period I used the Perfection steamer, I never had to dry off labels because they never got wet. Your comment makes me wonder about the steaming technique you utilized.