SME V arm: dynamic VTF or straight weight

Dear Peter: Good. The interesting point is that you already try it in a " serious " way and you learn ( like any one of us. ) on the subject.

I think that it will be a good thing to you that you can give at either set-up way a little more time with your reference records. This could help you to understand in a more precise manner what/where is happening to confirm your thoughts about.

Other recomendation that could help to be more precise is to use your V with out damping.

Obviously I asume that the whole cartridge/tonearm set-up is right on target including load impedance.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Peter, Raul is right and I just want to add, that indeed you should work without damping. A tonearm which does need damping is mated with the "wrong" cartridge. Damping is used to solve resonance problems which have their roots in resonance frequency missmatch in cartridge compliance with tonearm effective moving mass.

Tonearm manufacturers too often use fluid damping devices to make their tonearms "universal".

Kind of adapting a SUV to all kinds of terrain (and claiming it will be top-class on every......) - from Indianapolis Speedway to rough off-road terrain in Alaska- by just changing the tires.
A tonearm mated with a cartridge with suitable compliance will NEVER need additional damping - and will always perform better without.

Hallo Dertonarm,
you have a point I guess, so that said --- I use damping and had arms that had no facility for damping, so how to prove the point?
What I can say, in my current set-up when I use damping, it is WITH GREAT CAUTION, lest you kill the top end 'air'. In my experience, and corroborated by some reviewer's findings (not in your highest esteem) it is often LESS than 1/8 turn that can 'make it, or break it'.
Personally I like to have an option. Lift the pin out of the fluid, or ever so little place it in the silicone will tell you with a reasonably resolved system what works best for your arm cart combination.

There are some marvellous carts that will just sound more 'right' by using a little damping with a given arm. If you like such a cart e.g. AirTight PC-1, Windfeld, and then some, then according to your take, you would have to purchase a different arm or not listen to this type of cart?

In my experience it is the heavier carts (~13g) that become a bit 'mismatched' as you would call it i.e. in need of some damping with a midium mass arm 10~11g.
The funny thing is, that they are in no way mismatched according to the maths!
How about that now?! Wasn't it the maths that tells it all? If your cart/arm is in a resonance-band between 8Hz to 12Hz all is fine --- according to the maths, right?
Some like a more tight a tolerance of 8.5Hz to 10Hz, so if that still works, AND the cart still likes a little damping?
Still going to buy another arm or chuck your cart form some other item?
As for myself, I don't think so.
(If the tires on your car don’t work for you, get other tires first and don’t buy another car, I say)

Greetings,
Axel

Dear Axel, damping is always used to minimize the (always negative...) effects of unwanted vibrations sourced by resonance or torsion. Cartridge sourced vibrations are the result of too low compliance for the given effective mass of the tonearm. A hard (= low compliance ) cartridge can cause the tonearm and its bearings to vibrate to a degree which will have very pronounced effects on the sound. Damping is always used to reduce these unwanted vibrations (better: - to minimize their sound degrading effects).
But - these vibrations are the of a missmatch to begin with. Its not only a matter of the resonance frequency - its a matter of energy handling abilities and too small tires on a car with lots of torque and power......... now you ask the motor-management to reduce from 300 PS to 135 so that you can keep the car on the road.

The heavier carts do add another problem, as they do enlarge the effective moving mass quite considerably (as they are located at the farest point of the stylus-bearing distance) - a big problem with many of todays top-priced cartridges (good example: Koetsu's w/ stone bodies) which do feature too high "body mass" with comparatively high compliance. Thats why so many of the old Koetsu Black are cherished and still fetch new sale prices - they have by far the lowest compliance of all Koetsus and a "normal" weight. They do perform very well in almost all tonearms.

Damping may and will better the sound if your tonearm is matched with a cartridge which is not really ideal suited to be mounted in that particular tonearm.
But still - this particular cartridge would perform better in other tonearms, more suited to match its technical parameters.

In other words - damping is never needed and the sound will never benefit from its use IF cartridge and tonearm do mate well with each other.

We sometimes need damping, if you want to use a specific cartridge in a specific tonearm........ but it is never a happy wedding and not an ideal marriage.

Cheers,
Daniel

Hi DerTonarm,

cart compliance is a major input parameter in the calculation of arm / cart resonance, yes?

So, I'm trying to figure were we are regards the maths part of it.
Unless you are saying, a medium mass arm with a higher weight cart becomes a (sort of) higher mass arm. If that is so, then we are actually making things better, considering a medium compliance (12 ~ 16CU), or?

If, as you suggest the cart is heavy (stone body etc.) and the compliance is high (24 ~ 36CU) than the maths should again show, that resonance is out of the acceptable band as mentioned earlier (7.5Hz ~ 12Hz). Or do we have here the first case were the maths/facts do not tell the full story?

Interesting is, to my current understanding and assuming a 'reasonable' cart weight (5.5 ~ 8.5g), a high compliance cart with a light-mass arm, such as was the rave was in the 80s for a while, actually creates lesser IGD issues, YMMV.

There are of course other factors why compliance 'generally' has moved back from that dizzy height (very soft) of e.g. 36CU, to something in between to the other extreme, the VERY stiff (low compliance SPU, DECCA, EMT, etc.) of the 60s.

Now, will the maths tell it, or not?
If not, we all would be relinquished to try lots of different arms, or as I also said, not be able to listen to some marvellous carts.
Makes you think, doesn't it?

Greetings,
Axel