VIP, SOTA & Oracle Turntables

The "three" mfgrs mentioned are ALL superb designs.It is really(as in "truly") going to be a stretch to do much better,IMO.

What one wants,is a product that will spin a disc with as little of it's own personality as can be had.....and.....

it's not as hard a thing to do(get)as many would like us to believe!!Do you really believe you have to spend the kind of cash outlay as is being asked by many products to outperform something like a VPI Super-Scoutmaster,Sota Cosmos,Oracle?...C'mon!!

Sorry,but I've been around the block,and know enough about what is going on in today's hobby,to realize the best designs have a "load" of quality competition,at "any" price category.Go ahead.Knock me!

What I mean is that though there are some superb products,with absurdly high (necessary....really?) prices,the humble/standard-"ish" turntable has been around for SO long,that a goodly amount of them/tables will "do" the job "so" well it will be a real stretch for a hobbyist to make a meaningful/discernible comparison to determine a "true" winner.Whatwith the "other" variables involved in a high end set-up.Sorry!

What I see happening in the hobby,is the plethora of "dumb" high priced "stuff",that is really NO better than the products of yeaterday....being that many of the older designs have been maxxed out,by the passage of time!....."If" the mfgr is still viable,and cares!

Egads,the Oracle is STUNNING,and is a "complete design"....Don't even get me started with the Sota Cosmos(with some minor mods)and some of the VPI tables.

ALL of these designs are COMPLETE!....Disc clamping,and suspensions...if you want it.

I pick up a new magazine,today,and cannot believe the costs of some designs......AND on forums like this, these costly(better?????)designs are almost worshipped.(and there is nothing wrong with it,so don't get too excited....I'm just venting)

So,we get the "passion hobbyists"(like many on Audiogon)who have a vested interest in keeping a particular dealer or manufacturer "exposed".That kinda bugs me,because I know from personal experience "those" folks who do this regularly....to get better "deals".They are actually asked to "pitch" the name of the dealer,if the design gets knocked.Even if the criticism is valid!

Hey,the magazine press does the same thing!Newer,higher priced!!....Puhleeeease!!!I've heard way too many older/smarter hobbyist set-ups to realize the ability to sound good comes from voicing to a room,and "personal taste"!....That's it!!!...In the musical instrument "world" the passion hobbyists/musician accept,and laud the differences in "voice" between instruments.

They should post a message at the beginning of any "this is better than that" thread which reads "it's a matter of personal taste"!

Sorry,I have left the hobby(no big deal).It is a "great" hobby,but in honesty,I've gone back to collecting acoustic fretted instruments and studying music theory.ALL my original passion,before kids.Still,I think I have a right to voice my "opinion".Which is all it is...."opinion".

I had the misfortune of having a 2.5 year stretch,of non-stop lack of customer support,unreliability in "new'expensive" products,shipping/packing,spending BIG dollars for repair or updating.Only to have to re-pack if the problems were not solved and basically just having had enough....."That" is just "me"!...I needed to be more interactive with music too,so decided to "play" an instrument "again".

Nothing wrong with audio!Just some of the "characters" in the industry,imo.

Btw,in the acoustic instrument passion hobby/field(as nuts as audio,and maybe more-so, btw-:)the money is spent on stuff that goes "up" in value over the years(if well cared for).Is more desireable with time passage.Has a lifetime guarantee,and actually improves in sonic characteristics as the instrument ages......

Just like audio!-:)

Best to all

Sirspeedy.You truly are out on a limb working with out a net. I said something similar in my system post. Essentially some very expensive tt's with some very simple designs.

Sirspeedy, Vintage instruments are like vintage tts, only moreso. I have always wondered what audiophile product from what company caused you so much misery. As far as I can recall, you've kept it secret so far.

Thanks all for your many comments and suggestions. I do appreciate.

Bob

I agree with everyone who complimented SOTA on their customer relations and on the nice quality of their products. I will just relate my own experience regarding the "sound" of the Star Sapphire Series III, which was a table I owned about 8 years ago and for many years prior to that time. This is a Sapphire with a vacuum hold-down system. Plus I had purchased a Cosmos armboard for it. The Cosmos armboard takes advantage of constrained layer damping (CLD) with acrylic and aluminum layers. The point is that piano tones were always a little "shaky" or unstable with that tt. And the extreme low bass tones were a bit muddy. These traits were most noticed when I purchased a Nottingham Analog Hyperspace and was able to compare the two, using the very same tonearm and cartridge on both tables. In sum, I would not have gone back to the Star Sapphire after hearing the Hyperspace. I am not familiar first hand with the other products you are considering, but if you go Sota, I would suggest a Cosmos, Nova, or Millenia, rather than a Sapphire In those later products, I believe Sota addressed these sonic issues. Also, and Raul sort of alluded to this, your tonearm and cartridge are going to have most to do with the qualities of the sound you say you desire.