Anyone using a Lyra Delos yet?

Paperw8

The input capacitance MUST be 220pf because I used to use an MM cartridge on my PS.30R. MM cartridges require capacitance as you know, that's why they are there. dropping the 220pf and you'll have a really crappy sound on MM. I know because I took out my 220pf from my older PS.20 loading plugs and the sound was like a cheap 1920's gramophone.

MC cartridges don't really need capacitance but resistor loading. There is a big debate out there about required capacitance for MC. I have a friend who is an avid DIYer and he increased the input capacitance of his homebrew stage from 200pf to 1nf in 5 steps while using an old Linn Troika. Nothing really happened. But changing the load from 100ohms to 1k ohms in 5 steps made a massive difference at every step.

Also if you check inside the Whest 30R you will see 2 polypropylene 220pf capacitors at the RCA connectors. I think you may be doing the wrong thing or just totally forgotten 4th grade science.

I sort of remember in school physics that measuring resistance in parallel with capacitance will give you the reactance or a reactance measurement but trying to measure correct capacitance with a resistor across it is pretty hard if not impossible.

How do you measure the capacitance of your tonearm cable??? You must have to load it with a fixed resistor, measure the reactance and do the math to get the capacitance value.

I have found that loading does affect dynamics and presentation but needs to be set for the system and room. There are no hard fast rules with loading as moving the whole system to another room may need a different lading system because of the room.

just got an answer from James at whest regarding the capacitance value question and more. It seems that he has had quite a few emails regarding this subject.

I was right in thinking that without the 220pf the MM would sound wrong. As I thought, it's known anyway that the capacitance loading is to do with MM and not so important with MC. Varying capacitance on MM makes a very big difference in sound but not so with MC.

James says the most important aspect of design is 'information retrieval' and the only way around that is knowing what is 'coming in'.

I do get his reasoning and him likening basic knowledge of electronics to the basic knowledge of engine design. Many can understand getting 100hp from an engine but it takes a real understanding of all the component parts to get 500hp from the same block.

What I did not know was the input stage design of all the Whest phonostages except the small whestTWO are all designed for MC use. Meaning the impedances are geared towards low loading values - giving their lowest noise levels with low loads. The majority of phonostages out there are MM style with input - high resistance values/ impedances which is why many are noisier or sound poorer with MC loads. The fact that the Whest phonostages play MM is an aside as James says 'at this level people should be using MC'.

>>12-04-10: Dcarol
The fact that the Whest phonostages play MM is an aside as James says 'at this level people should be using MC'<<

That is pretentious BS on his part.

I own a half dozen moving magnets from the 70's and 80's that will kick the sh** out of many moving coils.

And I use them with far better phono preamps than his.

i measured the capacitance of the tonearm cable by disconnecting the cable from the cartridge terminals and measuring capacitance at the +/- leads of the rca connector with a multimeter.

this discussion has become badly confused. the tonearm cable presents a capacitance across the +/- leads of the rca input at the phono stage. jonathan carr provided an explanation on how this can influence the performance of your phono stage in a previous comment in this thread, so i would encourage interested parties to look through some of jonathan's earlier comments because he gave a really good explanation that i am not going to attempt to repeat here.

in any event, a capacitance measured across the +/- leads at the rca input of the phono stage represents a capacitance that would be *in parallel* with the capacitance presented by the tonearm cable. therefore, you can get a measure of the effective capacitance at the rca input by *adding* the capacitance of the tonearm cable and the capacitance measured across the +/- leads of the rca input. you can then use that effective capacitiance in conjunction with the instructions the come with the lyra delos cartridge to set the input impedance level at the phono stage.

just because you can see a 220pf capacitor on the circuit board does not mean that the capacitance across the +/- leads of the rca input is 220pf. in my case, i attempted to measure the input capacitance at the whest phono stage with the power turned off because i was hoping for a simple measurement. it is simply not worth my while to attmept to model the effective capacitance of active devices on the circuit board to come up with a presumably more "precise" value; first, i don't have a schematic of the phono stage circuit board, and second, i wouldn't spend the time to come up with such a capacitance estimate if i did have the schematic.

given the amount of confusion that seems to have arisen, i would suggest that those who have a triplanar tonearm use a capacitance value of about 80pf for the 1 meter tonearm cable and assume the input capacitance of the phono stage to be 0pf. then you can use the 80pf value with the lyra delos instructions and set the phono stage input impedance accordingly.

Paperw8 : "You'll get better dynamics but i think that 470 ohms is a bit bright. i had previously been using an effective load impedance of about 363 ohms. i am currently using an effective load impedance of 455 about ohms but may go back to 363 ohms after a while."

Indeed...my findings also Pw8. 220 initially seemed a little too bright but I had a feeling VTA needed further dialling in and it's pretty much there now. Azimuth and bias have taken some time because it's such a tolerant cartridge. Now that it's nearly there it's starting to sound like a very smooth tracker....Even though my MMIII has a similar stylus profile it's much more critical before it snaps into focus. It's a pleasure to "rediscover" MC with the Delos. It's my first Lyra but may not be the last...
I agree with the guys who say take the HFN/RR test disc tracking tests with a pinch of salt. The Lyra appears unexceptional when tracing test tracks (at the average VTF) but on music sounds unshakeable without necessarily having everything dialled in yet.
Best.....................M.