Steelhead vs LP2 etc with Revel Krell and Sota

Hi Russ:

The Kleos has the same electrical parameters as the Helikon. Output voltage 0.5~0.6mV at 5cm/sec (JVC test record), 5.4 ohm coil DCR, 9.9uH coil inductance.

I'd suggest using a tonearm cable with as little capacitance as possible, because this will allow you to load the cartridge more lightly, which should yield benefits in dynamic range and transient impact. Hope this information is of help when preparing the tonearm cable and phono stage loading.

I'm still working on simulations and measurements for how the electrical characteristics of the Kleos change with loading (including cable capacitance and phono stage resistance). I will incorporate this information into the instruction manual (as it was with the Delos).

The Kleos itself has entered production, but I am still working on the artwork for the packaging, and the information and text for the aforementioned instruction manual. I find these aspects to be tedious work, but unfortunately we aren't allowed to send cartridges to our distributors and dealers without proper packaging and instructions.

My estimate is that we will start shipping in around 2 weeks.

cheers, jonathan carr

Small update.

A Kleos (from the first production run) will be demonstrated in Munich. I believe that this will be in a room shared with Fast Audio and AMR.

I've continued to work flat-out on the graphics and page layouts for the packaging. I'd estimate that I'm 80-90% finished. Graphics and layout work are all complete; colors, paper and coating need more refinement. But we have hand-made some initial packaging samples for Munich.

Next on the must-complete list is the instruction manual and the electrical simulations and measurements.

cheers, jonathan carr

I have an SL bought from needle doctor. It has been a good option for me since I use a Tandberg 3018A preamp. Its MC sensitivity is 0.05 mV (I believe the gain is 75 db or so) - the best phono stage I've heard so far: clean, transparent, dynamic! What are my exchange/retip options?

I was really hoping Jcarr was going to answer something about this. I believe it is a legitimate question. I have spent more than 2000 USD less than 3 months ago relying in the consistency of Lyra. What happened with the SL version of the Helikon? Is Lyra going to keep offering low output MC cartridges or not? Are they going to do the same thing that most cartridge manufactures are doing: making concessions to mediocricy by making coils longer and degrading the sound just because preamps and phono stages nowadays are nothing, but Shi..... Well, we still have the top of the line Koetsus, The Benz Ebony TR (0.1mV, 1ohm, The Ortofons SPU, some Denons, the Linn Klyde and close to that at 0.28 the Dynas. But I made the wrong decision. I went for the Lyra who had promised a cartrige for real good, high gain preamps. Make no mistakes my friends, if you want real music out of vinyl the only way is with 70 db gain (for an MC low output cartridge) in the phono stage y only a few preamps capable of that have been made. The TR 3018A, the MAC C22 and just a few others. Nowadays you have to pay 20K USD minimum for a Nagra or a FM Accoustics to get that. Everything the reviewers and the manufactures are saying about this issue is just nonsense and garbage. They are either stupid or corrupt. Why Mr. JCarr has not answer anything?

Mavare: Apologies for the delay in responding - I need to fulfill my daily production and design responsibilities, and this particular period is even crazier than normal (since we are still scrambling to prepare for the commencing of Kleos shipments).

May I ask if you have already talked to Needle Doctor? If you did, you should have received the answer that if your Helikon SL wears out or gets broken, we can replace it with a new one (using 100% new parts), or if you want, we can rebuild the one that you have (using new replacements for all wearable or damaged parts). If your dealer, national distributor is out of inventory at the time that you require a replacement cartridge and a new one needs to built up from scratch, the complete production process could take about 35-40 days (we normally don't keep surplus inventory).

We also support our distributors in their trade-in and/or trade-up programs, so that would be another option for you when the time comes.

I must caution you that I don't have the authority to dictate the policies of our distributors or their dealers, so the person who you should be talking to the dealer that you purchased the Helikon SL from. If you can't get satisfaction, I can attempt to facilitate things on your behalf, but the general procedure should be that you talk to your dealer first, and as a next resort, to your national distributor. Our gross margin per cartridge sale is several times less than what the dealer earns, and taking good care of customers is a major part of how delears are supposed to earn that margin.

FWIW, although I agree that it would be nice to have more contemporary phono stages that were comfortable with low input voltages, and that it would open up more options for me (as a cartridge designer), your post suggests that you are overly fixated on low output voltage, but not considering how that is achieved. When you look at output voltages, you should also study the source impedance, because that will be a better guide to how much wire was used to wind the coils. Low output voltage can be the result of reduced coil windings, but it can also imply the use of generator systems which aren't particularly efficient. To make things more complex, generator efficiency and generator linearity are two separate things, and my experience so far has been that it's better to compromise a bit on generator efficiency if this enables generator linearity to be improved (IOW, reduced distortion).

Let's look at your cartridge list. The SPU and Benz Ebony TR do have low-impedance coils, and that tells us that the coils are made with fairly short wire lengths, and perhaps fat wire. But in the case of Denon cartridges, the lowest output is 0.25mV achieved from a 13-ohm coil, which suggests rather longer wire. The lowest coil impedances that Dynavector uses are 5 ohms. Same for Koetsu. This certainly isn't high, but neither is it extremely low (the non-SL Helikon is 5.4 ohms). And if the coil former (core) is made from non-permeable materials, chances are that longer coil windings will be required to achieve output levels that don't cause fits for even higher-quality phono stages. As a case in point, the Benz Ruby cartridges employ at least 38-ohm coils to achieve their output levels of around 0.35mV.

In my experience with designing phono amplifiers and cartridges, the outcome is usually best when designs don't excessively focus on one or two parameters at the cost of a half-dozen others. I normally keep coil impedance below 10 ohms, but I wouldn't hesitate to exceed this for a particular design if I thought that the net benefits could outweigh the demerits (although extensive listening tests would be performed to make sure that the net sonic effect was positive).

OK, I better get back to those Kleos'.

hth, jonathan carr