1. Home
  2. analog
  3. 1275279419

Looking for the Honda S2000 of turntables

This turned out much longer than I anticipated, so I understand if you folks skip right over this post. For the rest of you, here we go.

I've been reading a lot about turntables for quite some time now. I have learned about matching tonearms and cartridges, resonant frequencies, compliance, azimuth, null points. And still I have difficulty choosing a model. Part of this is simply the number of choices available and the amount of disagreement between posters to forums such as this. But I think the biggest part of this is that one man's trash is another's treasure. People want different things from their turntables.

Look, there are folks out there, and you may be one of them, who are willing to devote time to tweaking and comparing and upgrading to squeeze every last bit of performance out of your systems. This is not a knock; it is clear you are passionate about your hobby and I am happy to see people get so much joy from their music. I wish I had the money, time and ears to conduct such experiments myself, but that's not me and it's not what I am looking for.

Here's what I am looking for in order of importance:

1. Tracking ability. I've read reviews to the tune of "this cartridge is amazing! Such detail, so dynamic! It doesn't track very well, but the slam!" Huh? If it doesn't track well, I don't give a fish how great it sounds. I've heard inner groove distortion and I want to minimize it as much as possible. Now, from what I've read, I should get a high-compliance cartridge because they track best, which means I should be looking for a low-mass tonearm. Except that manufacturers don't list the tonearm mass on their websites (I haven't found any, unless only the ones out of my price range do so) and the online tonearm database only lists mass for a few models, and of those I can afford, none of them are low-mass. Are there no affordable low-mass arms?

2. No fuss. I've read the arguments about VTA, and frankly I don't know what to believe. Some of you guys change it for every record, others never touch it. I want to think about my turntable as much as I think about my refrigerator; I want to open the door and the drinks to be cold. I want to play a record and hear music. If it's really a simple adjustment and makes an obvious difference, I'd consider it, but it's hard to know which of these suggestions are based in reality and which are just black magic.

3. Make my music sound good. I know, duh, right? What I mean is, I want MY music to sound good. I listen to R&B, Soul, and Rock through the 1970s. Up-tempo punchy music. I suspect a lot of these super expensive rigs are necessary to reveal the subtleties of symphonic works. Again, good on ya, I'm happy for classical fans, but I will never ever put a classic record on my platter, so those requirements go out the window. Think Little Richard, Sam Cooke, Beatles, James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Louis Jordan, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ramones, Talking Heads, that sort of thing.

3.5 On the subject of revealing detail in recordings, not all my records are in pristine condition and I'm afraid too revealing a system may bring out surface noise to a level I'm not happy with. I've read reviews that label certain cartridges as "forgiving" Is this what they're referring to? Is this something I should consider when choosing hardware?

4. Price. I have $2000 to spend on a turntable, cartridge and phonostage. When I say I have $2000 to spend, it means I have $2000 to spend, not "Well, you can get this now, and then upgrade this and this." No, I have two grand and that's that. That is way more than I spent on my last table (MMF 2.1), so whatever I get will be a big improvement. And I don't WANT to upgrade. I want it to work great now and enjoy it with no eye to the future.

Some of you may be thinking, "Buddy, you should just stick to CDs; this hobby isn't for you." First off, while no CD-hater, I have heard the difference between vinyl and CD and it is appreciable. Vinyl playback can sound alive in a way I have never heard from its digital counterpart. Also, I already have a few hundred records just waiting to be played again.

The best analogy I could think of regarding my quest for a new turntable is cars. There are sportscars out there like Ferraris, Maseratis, etc. that are magnificent machines capable of unparalleled performance and fun. They are also, incredibly expensive and fussy. These babies need to be coddled and primped and maintained not just to run well, but to just plain run! Then, there's the S2000 which is an amazing car in its own right, nimble, attractive and best of all, it's a Honda, which means the thing just works. No constant tweaking and fussing over. Turn the key and off you go. Sure, it's no Lotus, but it's no Civic either.

There we are. Thank you if you've made it this far. I really do respect the collective knowledge of the members of this board and will appreciate any advice that may come my way.
shrevie
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
Blindsided. I would have NEVER known! i guess answering dudes who blow smack about my ride is off limits... Why don't you whine at Rrog too? or is because I: 1) dis' Technics and upset the Technics fanboys? or 2) drive an American car? and Rrog is a Technics cheerleader?
As far as the turntable goes. I can't find a new TT, including cart AND phono, with the attributes the dude who wants a Honda S2000 of turntables for $2,000. NO raises or future upgrades.
Your post dissing me didn't answer the question either. Your prior post lauding the Technics is just more fanboy cheering.
I have no dislike of the Technics. I just think it is, along with the other old school TTs, not anything near what the guy wants.(though THOSECAN have a good arm, just at way more that $2 grand) Your notion of what a turntable should do may differ. The arm on the Technics is just not good enough to be in the starting gate. And once you pull that arm and start messing around, it no longer is: $2,000. and no longer anything more than an experiment.
The automotive contrast is the Honda guy wants to buy a new Honda S2000 and offers the dealer $10,000 cash. What is gonna happen? no deal. For his $10,000 I saw a badly used Porshe.. a used Mazda, even a used high milage S2000. He wants a 'new' TT(AND cart AND phono) for $2 grand. He is gonna be disappointed, no matter what he does. I say, Save your money.
The closest is a used rega or VPI with PS and a used cartridge, with ?? phono section for a few hundred.
The KAB Technis is in the price range. It plays LPs. It has a fanbase where you can glory in owning one and be smug knowing others like it. But if you want what you asked for. The Technics is not it.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
I owned a KAB Technics. I don't believe Elizabeth has.

Earlier in this thread, I recommended either a Technics SL1200 MK II *or* a used Rega P3...so even though I speak as a past KAB Technics owner, I don't consider myself a fanboy to the exclusion of other possibilities.

However, Shrevie, I like the same music you want to hear..."Little Richard, Sam Cooke, Beatles, James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Louis Jordan, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ramones, Talking Heads, that sort of thing".

I can say without equivocation that Stevie Ray Vaughn's "In Step", and Talking Heads' "Remain in Light" sounded *incredible* on my KAB Technics table (using either an Audio Technica AT-150Mlx or Dynavector cart). In some respects, it was better than my $10,000 digital source (better dynamics for one).

I'm certain the same is true on a Rega P3, but you'll have to find a used one.

If you're patient, and you're willing to buy used, for $2000 total you can pick up a new Technics with the KAB tonearm damper, or a used Rega P3, an Audio Technica AT-150Mlx cart, a used Wright WPP200C or Heed Quasar phono preamp (or any of the phono preamps previously mentioned by Bondmanp), and cleaning accessories (start with brushes and fluid...you *don't* need to invest in a record cleaning machine at this point).

Just know that you will be dipping your toe into a world were many of us ended up spending double, triple and quadruple of our original budgets...and we did it very quickly.

Analog gets expensive fast unless you're one of the few who can ignore the audiophile chatter and be satisfied with the starter rig.
ohlala
993 posts
 
Figuring the expectations of someone whom I do not know is hard, but I don't think one can find the S2000 of analog rigs for $2k, especially a plug-n-play. A good value TT is more expensive than that. Maybe Shrevie knows better for him/herself and having heard a setup in that price range. Maybe he/she has specific goals that can be met at that price. I hope one of those goals isn't frequency response. Try before you buy.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Maybe he/she has specific goals that can be met at that price. I hope one of those goals isn't frequency response.
Ohlala (Reviews | Threads | Answers)
Absolute nonsense.
macrojack
1,292 posts
 
"Fanboy" is an insipid pejorative, the use of which generally indicates a weak intellect coupled with a mean streak and unbearable sense of inferiority.

Technics has owned turntable sales all over the U.S. since the late 1970s. For reasons I am unable to cite, they were the turntable of choice for radio stations and, later, audiophiles up until both groups migrated to CD.

A stock 1200 series turntable will serve your purposes nicely but, as others have pointed out, you may feel a desire to pursue incremental improvements over time. If so, KAB can provide numerous options at small prices. If not, you will still enjoy a performance level that belies the modesty of your investment.

As for phono preamp, there is really no reason to buy that new. It doesn't have moving parts and is unlikely to reach you with appreciable wear if you screen your seller.

There is a strong tendency to follow the lead of purists and their other followers when asking advice on audio forums. "Me too" disease causes the Amen chorus to conflate unnecessary concerns and standards. Buy what makes sense to you.

I would not be afraid to buy used but you are and you should follow your gut on that matter. Just don't be pushed to inaction by rumors and warnings. There are a lot of Rega owners out there who are very happy and there are 100 times as many happy Technics owners.
More to discover