Schroeder Reference Arm

Dear Joel et al, By choosing 1kHz in my little proposal, I did not mean to take the position that 1kHz is the sine qua non for setting azimuth. The goal of my proposed experiment would simply be to compare the outcome when a really good ear (like Doug's or Paul's or Tbg's) sets azimuth according to his/her preference vs when azimuth is set by a typical audiophile conventional electronic method ((based usually on a 1kHz test tone). I have no preconceived notions (i.e., no hypothesis). It's actually dangerous to design an experiment to prove an hypothesis. It's better to acquire some good data and then make an hypothesis centered on the data. Further experiments then test the strength of that hypothesis. If you can develop a way to use a set of frequencies to set azimuth electronically, rather than just a single frequency, that would be a useful improvement on the electronic method, IMO.

If one could determine what frequency range that crosstalk is most discernable to the ear. Then maybe there would be an ideal test tone to use.

I just don't get how one night of comparison at RMAF is going to tell anyone which arm is better. I do feel that Dan_ed's personal experience will be much more valid (especially for himself). But any cartridge I have ever setup (and a good setup takes time and tweaking, I don't care what expert you are - as VTF, VTA etc all need to be fine tuned over time) needed about 2-3 days to lock in all aspects. The best one will accomplish is an overall character assessment in some regard or other.

On a different note the art of setting up a Schroeder is long and painful but very rewarding in my case. Using different counterweights and different headshell weights all contribute to the final sound. As does the damping etc. I can't imagine many people getting to hear a Schroder at it's best. But, Frank - that is the curse of your arm. It is a setup nightmare and has been confirmed as such in the mainstream press. You should almost include a DVD. But when you change VTA you change VTF and you change azimuth. Anyhow it is as if I circle in on a point and as I keep refining the setup the circles get smaller and smaller until I finally get to the point, where VTF, VTA - damping, Azimuth etc are all locks in. Don't forget HTA as well. The difference I have observed of the Schroeder outside of the difficultly of setup is that the lack of a ball bearing does slightly change the dynamic and resolution in the bass. This is similar to an air bearing arm. But there is a musicality and dimensionality that exists with certain cartridges on Franks arm that has made that sacrifice worth it. Now if a different arm w. a unipivot bearing can combine the best of all worlds that would be great but honestly surprising. But no single night in RMAF will give the complete answer. Just a gimpse of what the possibilities are.

Dgad, you make great points. I, personally, am not really interested in a quest to find which arm is better than the other. I expect them to be very close in performance. If I'm wrong on this, I won't be the first time. :-) As is usually the case, I expect some may prefer one arm/cart combination to another as Frank pointed out before. For me this is simply a wonderful opportunity to meet and learn from some of the best.

One thing I will say that in all of my Talea listening to the present, I have not really fine tuned the setup (No MintLP protractor yet, for instance) of my XV-1s on the Talea. Yet the Talea clearly shows enhanced performance of the three cartridges that have been mounted when I was present compared to the Triplanar. I hate to keep saying this because I still love my Triplanar, but that is the best reference I have. I have heard a Schroeder Ref on several occasions but that is much different than my having hands-on experience.

As Thom mentioned above, the Talea is making me rethink my aversion to two arms on my Gavia.

Dgad's points are indeed valid - in fact, true optimization of the analog front end is a time consuming, laborious task that takes much longer than the optimistic numbers Dgad postulates (unless you happen to have a stroke of dumb luck, or you're sloppy). I believe the only caveat in his example is that all 3 designers (Tri, Frank and Joel) will be in the room, optimizing the setup of their respective arms. I would imagine that a common denominator, such as a Dynavector XV-1S, or a ZYX Universe will be present. All three designers are intimately familiar with the turntable in question; all three will be familiar in part with the rest of the system Thom will be using. I think the biggest variable will be the room and the overall system setup. So, while nothing is perfect, I do think the playing field is at least level. Will each arm be heard at its very very best? Probably not, but I think everyone present will hopefully glean something more useful than a mere 'character assessment' of all the arms in play. Of course, the potential and actual rarely meet, and Murphy is always lurking...