A Copernican View of the Turntable System

Dear Thuchan

For me personally it did not meet my needs either in the plinth that I used. 7 layers of birch version. Not an exotic one like you mention.

My current nude set up with isolated arm pod gets me much closer to my personal audio nirvana.

You have a great many tables. All I can say is there are a number of us here that would love your opinion of it in a nude set up with an isolated arm pod. It is a different animal set up this way.

But I am sure you have many higher priority projects so I understand it if this is not possible. Time is so short for these activities I find.

Thank you for your impressions. Chris

Symposium Jr Initial Impressions under Armpod

Okay – I agreed to be the guinea pig for this and now am glad I did.

I say this because I have never tried symposium rollerblocks in the past. We all have various products we use for tweaking - this was not one of them for me. This experiment with the Jrs has to be the most odd and extreme one for me as it goes against conventional thinking – I admit that. But then I am going through a period of experimentation since the nude TT and armpod – we are on a roll. And the costs for the real improvements I can actually hear have been negligible.

What is the easiest way for me to describe for you what using these Jrs. is like under an armpod ? If you have ever used a VPI JMW pivot tonearm (I know there are a great many of these tonearms out there) then you are very familiar with the way the tonearm “shakes and squirms” in its pivot as you lift it and set it over the lp until the needle hits the groove. The Symposium Jrs. under the arm pod “extend” this type of movement down into the armpod so that the armpod and tonearm have the same action and feel. This best describes what its like to use them. It moves around but it does not and will not fall over. It finds its original place again very easily.

They are very easy to set up. But –BOTH surfaces must be level and straight (1) the platform on the bottom, that the Jr. rests on and (2) the bottom of the armpod that the top Jr is up against. If you are using a brass cylinder as an arm pod you need to make sure the bottom of it is smooth.

From my last post the test setup was on purpose, in a bad location suspended hardwood floors. The Jrs. reduced skipping when walking by greatly compared to the regular setup on spikes. The sound difference was noticeable to me even with the cheap old cartridge I was testing with, so I decided to go the next step and set the armpod up next to my sp10 in my sound room.

I believe if you take a cheap but functioning cartridge and put it in a good system, that you will make it sound much better than you think it has a right to sound. Likewise take a good cartridge – put it in a below average system and it will sound like a cheap cartridge.

The cheap grado black cartridge was bearable in my system with the Jrs. It was not bearable without them. Re-read what I just said in last 2 sentences because I am saying a lot here.

Am I ready to try the Jrs. with a $500 - $1000 + cartridge – not yet . Will it make a $500 cartridge sound better – if I was betting on this I would put my money down on it. But I need more time to practice.

On the whole tonearm/armpod/Jrs setup -

You either have the touch or you don’t. I can’t speak for you and I will not be responsible for cartridge failure due to clumsiness or accidents. If you are able to line up a cartridge on your own with the micro movements that are required, than this should be very easy for you.

I found it was easier to put the needle down than it was to raise it at the end of the record. But then I had it setup in the back as a second arm. It is going to take practice. A light touch to keep the armpod from moving. Very definitely give this a try with a cheap cartridge. You need to try it out to see if this is for you. As our friend Geoch said – not for the faint hearted? But the results are definitely rewarding to those that are able to do it.

Cheers Chris

Whow so cool.

Well Chris......what can I say?
This sounds almost contradictory to the 'Copernican' precept whilst at the same time supporting it?......if you follow me?
I'm trying to find the right theoretical position for this revelation?
Give me time?
Henry

I believe Henry your first post is still very relevant – I added 6 words at the end based on this experiment so far.

“The tonearm is now the centre of this ‘Turntable System’ and is the most important element. It must be rigidly held on a base which is perfectly flat, non-magnetic and relatively immune to structure-borne and air-borne feedback. This base must ideally have no contact with mechanical or electrical interference and must under no circumstances, move or deflect in any manner” (once the stylus hits the groove).

Juniors

Everything is still very hard and rigid between the platform and the armpod with the Jrs.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vopin&zz1301604425&viewitem&o3&1303046315#item

The fact the armpod moves “prior to” the stylus touching the groove is irrelevant. The fact it moves no more once set down is VERY relevant. I say this because if it is moving that big 12 inch arm would have distortion, would skip and the stylus would be toast.

My VPI arm does this exact same movement prior to touching the stylus. Who here has a VPI that can share their thoughts on it?

Obviously weight on the Jr. bearing is critical. My first steel armpod block of steel which I am testing with is 18.9 lbs.

What I tried was very early preliminary testing ONLY with a cheap old cartridge. It proved TO ME per Geoch's earlier post that this concept functions - no more - YET. I picked up an MM based on Rauls suggestion and listened to it last night on my ET with the brass armpod to get a feel for it. It’s a decent cartridge – I will mount it on the VPI and continue testing using the Jrs. with it and report back.

You have to have the light touch with this when interacting with arm 1) lowering the stylus 2) lifting at the end. DONT try this out when you have had a few glasses of your favourite beverage :)

Can someone else come on here and describe in their own words "the action" (shaking and squirming) of the VPI JMW arm prior to setting the stylus down in the groove ? I say this again because it is the same action the armpod does prior to the stylus touching the groove. It would help others to visualize what is happening.

Cheers Chris