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Turning lead into gold ?

Ok I'll admit a lot of stuff we read about makes this claim,but how often are we less than satisfied by the results?

I'd make a wild guess and say that most of the time what we hope will make a huge improvement to our sound,never does ,or at least not to the extent we wished for.

Perhaps that's because most of us are not privileged to do a review of the gear in question with components that can reveal such improvements.

To put it simpler,move up to a better turntable, such as the SME10, Sme V arm,and pop in a brand new pricey cartridge and audio nirvana should be a given.

And I would agree, I've just done that.
Moved up to the SME10,SME V combo.
Not the brand new pricey cartridge however.

Where things have taken a turn is that while waitng for my new upgraded cartridge to arrive,I've had to sink a few levels low and resort to an old, well worn Grado Platinum.

This I thought would be like putting re-treads on a Porsche, and about as foolish as one can get.

Who has ever read any review of an arm or turntable where the reviewer ever used anything but the very best most pricey cartridge available?
Mikey are ya lisning?

But hey when you can eat steak everyday of the week, why settle for a hot dog if you don't have to?

So by all accounts the component in review has a best case scenario for a great review.
Most times this is the case, but some stellar casts of all star performers have been turkeys at the box office ,we've all been privy to these.

But I digress.

What I found out when I had to use the old Grado, was that, I didn't think the sound was bad at all.
It was much better than I had expected, and the new cartridge for 6 times the price should be a game changer, or it better be.

Surprisingly, I never heard in past tables and arms how good that Grado was.
It was always an entry level item, a step along the way,to a much better sounding one.
Or so I always thought.

I now have a new found respect for this old cartridge, and also for how great the Sme combo is.

So the whole point of this is to not just pass some time on a rainy day, like I'm doing with the SME/Grado combo.

It's to point out that the measure of greatness isn't just when all the moons align in perfect sync.

It's when you can add something less than stellar to an all star cast and not feel any less impressed by the performance.

Will the new MC cartridge outperform the Grado?
My guess is yes,and I'll be impressed,but that's just what the reviewers would tell you also, so no news there.

What impresses me most about the SME combo is not that it will make a two grand cartridge sound good, but that it has made a well worn $300.00 one sound so good.

Lead into gold?
lacee
lacee OP
811 posts
 
I don't wish to post the name of the new cartridge,that's not fair because it does need more playing time,but it is from a well established company with some truly stellar products that get high praise in all the major reviews.

I feel that there is nothing wrong with the new cartridge,it is doing it's job.

This post is about more than a cartridge review, it's about how our expectations can exceede our experiences.

In many cases spending 6 times the cash for a new power amp should provide quite the upgrade,as with most speakers etc.

When it comes to cartridges and cd players I'm afraid, things are not so straight forward.

I've listened to some very expensive digtal gear,some consisting of 4 pieces and costing just a few dollars from 100 grand, and yes it is great, but not 100 times greater.

Speakers, on the other hand,going from 1 grand to 100 grand, and things do change.

My personal take on this is that some things that we use really can't be improved upon to the extent that others can.
A cartridge is made up of only so much stuff, and only so many variables, setting aside craftsmanship,but in a cost to parts comparison, we are not talking about a lot of room for costly raw materials, certainly nothing like the parts cost of some of the top tier speakers.

The same goes for cd players, only so many parts makers and just a bit of juggling these around and re-badging them .Again like cartridges, only so much you can do to set yourself apart from the crowd.

I think the limitations inherent in the designs of each also makes so many of them sound alike.

If you can't tell one amp from another, then good luck with cd players under 10 grand.

Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking any high end products, it's not all hype or smoke and mirrors,but there aren't always nite and day differences either as you go up the ladder.

I can now see why some folks call it quits afterawhile and settle for where they are at.
Diminishing returns,yes,there seems to be a plateau when reached, it's hard to go any further in either direction.

I remember when I started out, there were nite and day differences, but that's typical when you start out,moving from entry level to higher end gear.

It's when you get to a certain level that the Julian Hirsch mindset kicks in and everything starts to sound the same or as great as the last piece you heard.

I am sure the measuremnts improve as the price of admission increases, but it's not always equated to the pleasure factor.
lewm
6,770 posts
 
I believe it is impossible for most of us to make a totally subjective judgement after we have just spent a great deal of money on a new addition to the audio system. Just the fact that you've made the financial commitment will bias you to fall in love with the new at the expense of the old. I try to withhold judgement until several months and many hours of listening are under my belt. As to cartridges, I am absolutely convinced based on my own recent experiences that many relatively cheap MM or MI cartridges can more than compete with many very expensive MCs. On the other side of the coin, surely you did not expect that sonic quality would be directly proportional to the ratio of the price you paid for cartridge A to cartridge B (or insert other component in this equation). That never happens.
lacee OP
811 posts
 
But it does happen, like I said, I've heard vast improvements in sound quality between $600.00 speakers and $60,000.00 + speakers.

No one would expect them to sound the same, or do the same things, and the difference is audible and it's not your imagination.

But cd players sound very similar even when you get rather pricey.

Turntables and arms can make cheap cartridges sound much better than you would expect however; at least in my most recent experience.
I used the same Grado on a VPI Scout,Rega P9 and then in the SME rig.

The Grado never performed as well as it did when in the SME 10 table SME V arm.

Inserting the pricier cartridge didn't change my enjoyment of the music or find any hidden nuggets.
It was just a subtle refinement of what the Grado was doing.

I'm not knocking the cartridge, as it needs more time,but if I were auditioning them side by side and faced to make a decision, the way things are now, I would choose the Grado on cost to performance.

So I'm wondering, if I would have sprung for the top of the line cartridge,would it have been that much better than the coil I did buy?

I have experienced more profound differences when I made upgrades to power cords for example, and never had to persuade myself that I had made a worthwhile purchase.

It's just that cd players and cartridges in my experience really don't elevate the sound as much as other components are capable of, and for me, it would appear that the wise place to spend your upgrade money is elsewhere.

I would definetly have to say that upgrading the table and arm is a more profund improvement than upgrading to an expensive cartridge on a cheap table.

To my ears, you just aren't going to hear what you paid the extra cash for.
oilmanmojo
468 posts
 
understand better what you are saying. I used to use a dual 721 for many years with a shure cartridge, sansui reciever and (dont laugh) bose 601 speakers. For a young guy with limited funds, (though the dual was a pretty pricey in its day)I was very proud of the system and it did not sound "bad". This was back in the mid to late 70's and then hear a set of Klipsch Lascala and Klipschorns in two different systems, one with a technics table and one with a thorens and just got blown away. sure i heard pretty good "club" systems with JBL's but for a home system, the klipsh speakers just was so much more than the bose. (the 601's had two 6 inch woofers and 4 tweeters) After that i upgraded my speakers, (got an intial set of Klipsch kg6.6) and from there i have continually upgraded my system to the current version. I do recognize the differences between the entry level equipment and the mid fi and hi fi equipment. When i finally got a michell gyrodec and my first MC cartridge i once again was "blown" away with the upgrade. Then i got an old vandersteen MC step up that boosted my old rotel phono stage and got to play around with cartridge loadings and once again got a big boost from my old MC cartridge. I do have my final system (only because i am old enough that i got to think about retirement and that "fixed income thing") . I know there are probably better systems than my Marantz amp, Maplenoll Apollo, zyx UNIverse, ZYX phono stage and Klipschorn speakers but i love the sound and now really focus on the music and tweaking my maplenolls. (they are tweakers paradise) Now interestingly, maplenolls are full of lead. so i guess i made lead into gold!
lacee OP
811 posts
 
Here's an update,the Talisman V2 Gold now has bass.

Did I hit the magic burn in hour?

Can't be sure about that, but what I do know is that I got bass after I disconnected the tonearm ground leads from my steelhead phono stage.
There was a bit of hum with them connected.

I no longer feel that the Talismann is a weak link in my chain, and that it has all the body and warmth of the Grado, with added definition and detail.

The vinyl part of my system now trumps the digital section again.

But that Grado did sound nice for a $300.00 investment.

The sound now is great, but not six times better.
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