Turning lead into gold ?

But it does happen, like I said, I've heard vast improvements in sound quality between $600.00 speakers and $60,000.00 + speakers.

No one would expect them to sound the same, or do the same things, and the difference is audible and it's not your imagination.

But cd players sound very similar even when you get rather pricey.

Turntables and arms can make cheap cartridges sound much better than you would expect however; at least in my most recent experience.
I used the same Grado on a VPI Scout,Rega P9 and then in the SME rig.

The Grado never performed as well as it did when in the SME 10 table SME V arm.

Inserting the pricier cartridge didn't change my enjoyment of the music or find any hidden nuggets.
It was just a subtle refinement of what the Grado was doing.

I'm not knocking the cartridge, as it needs more time,but if I were auditioning them side by side and faced to make a decision, the way things are now, I would choose the Grado on cost to performance.

So I'm wondering, if I would have sprung for the top of the line cartridge,would it have been that much better than the coil I did buy?

I have experienced more profound differences when I made upgrades to power cords for example, and never had to persuade myself that I had made a worthwhile purchase.

It's just that cd players and cartridges in my experience really don't elevate the sound as much as other components are capable of, and for me, it would appear that the wise place to spend your upgrade money is elsewhere.

I would definetly have to say that upgrading the table and arm is a more profund improvement than upgrading to an expensive cartridge on a cheap table.

To my ears, you just aren't going to hear what you paid the extra cash for.

understand better what you are saying. I used to use a dual 721 for many years with a shure cartridge, sansui reciever and (dont laugh) bose 601 speakers. For a young guy with limited funds, (though the dual was a pretty pricey in its day)I was very proud of the system and it did not sound "bad". This was back in the mid to late 70's and then hear a set of Klipsch Lascala and Klipschorns in two different systems, one with a technics table and one with a thorens and just got blown away. sure i heard pretty good "club" systems with JBL's but for a home system, the klipsh speakers just was so much more than the bose. (the 601's had two 6 inch woofers and 4 tweeters) After that i upgraded my speakers, (got an intial set of Klipsch kg6.6) and from there i have continually upgraded my system to the current version. I do recognize the differences between the entry level equipment and the mid fi and hi fi equipment. When i finally got a michell gyrodec and my first MC cartridge i once again was "blown" away with the upgrade. Then i got an old vandersteen MC step up that boosted my old rotel phono stage and got to play around with cartridge loadings and once again got a big boost from my old MC cartridge. I do have my final system (only because i am old enough that i got to think about retirement and that "fixed income thing") . I know there are probably better systems than my Marantz amp, Maplenoll Apollo, zyx UNIverse, ZYX phono stage and Klipschorn speakers but i love the sound and now really focus on the music and tweaking my maplenolls. (they are tweakers paradise) Now interestingly, maplenolls are full of lead. so i guess i made lead into gold!

Here's an update,the Talisman V2 Gold now has bass.

Did I hit the magic burn in hour?

Can't be sure about that, but what I do know is that I got bass after I disconnected the tonearm ground leads from my steelhead phono stage.
There was a bit of hum with them connected.

I no longer feel that the Talismann is a weak link in my chain, and that it has all the body and warmth of the Grado, with added definition and detail.

The vinyl part of my system now trumps the digital section again.

But that Grado did sound nice for a $300.00 investment.

The sound now is great, but not six times better.

Dear Lacee: +++++ " Surprisingly, I never heard in past tables and arms how good that Grado was.
It was always an entry level item, a step along the way,to a much better sounding one.
Or so I always thought.

I now have a new found respect for this old cartridge " +++++

well this is nothing short of what I found out several years ago with several humble vintage MM/MI cartridges and was on that time that I started a dedicated thread to share experiences incredible experiences on those humble MM/MI cartridges. Today that thread has over 7K posts related and as you many people now have " a new found respect for those old little gems ", I always say that those are : " the missed link ". Fortunately we found out and now we have a " new " realy fine analog alternative.

+++++ " What impresses me most about the SME combo is not that it will make a two grand cartridge sound good, but that it has made a well worn $300.00 one sound so good. " +++++

IMHO a cartridge is only a half-terminated item and its other half is the tonearm.
Whe a tonearm and cartridge performs as two items this means that tonearm is not helping for the cartridge showed at its best. When both performs as one integrated item then all shines. cartridge performance quality level depends in firt instance with which tonearm is mated: synergy here is the name of the game.

+++++ " I would definetly have to say that upgrading the table and arm is a more profund improvement than upgrading to an expensive cartridge on a cheap table. " ++++

well: " in a cheap tonearm ". That is the same experience by Cousinbilly1:

+++++ " with the top of the line 'tonearm', coupled to their cheapest cartridge "EASILY" outperformed the top of the line cart on the inexpensive tonearm " +++++

I never heard the Talisman V2 but I own the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood ( non stock cantilever/stylus. ) that under my Agon Virtuoso review outperformed ( in my system ) the Goldfinger LOMC top of the line Clearaudio one and ( if you go and read through the latest pages on the MM long thread. ) one Agoner prefers in his sytem his vintage Technics P100CMK4 over his Lyra new top of the line 9K+ cartridge:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&7233&4#7233

and I own some very cheap and humble MM/MIs that outperform almost any big big Kdollars cartridges out there.

One main characteristic where the MM/MIs take advantage over its LOMC " cousins " is that the MM/MI are better tracking cartridges and this not only means lower distortions but more music information that is in the LP grooves that the LOMC can't " read " because instead to always been in the groove are jumping ( microscopic level ) due to its low compliance design.

Anyway, very good experience you had with that Grado and now with your Talisman V2.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

This experience has me wondering how good the Grado Statement Ref would sound.

I have a friend with the SME 30,V arm and listened to the Stradivari and then the Goldfinger cartridges, however not at the same listening session.

The main reason I went for the Talisman V2 gold, was because of the way the top Clearaudios worked in his system.Also, the fact that it was in my price range.

I haven't used a coil since back in the late 1970's,80's -Fidelity Research MK13f, and Dynavector Karat Ruby.
Back then the table was an Oracle Delphi mk3 and an ET2 linear arm.

A bad experience with the Dyna(snagged the ruby on my sweater)led to years of digital only and then when back into vinyl, the Grado Platinum seemed like not too much to loose if I had another accident.

I used the Grado in my Rega P9 but it never performed like it did in the SME.

I should add that a friend now owns my P9 and uses an old MC and I never heard that table sound so good.

Like everything else, it's about combinations that either work together or they don't.

I suppose somewhere there must be a list of tables, arms and cartridges that folks have found to work well with one another, and a list of combinations that don't.

If there isn't, somebody should start one.