Raven AC3

I dont have a AC but a Raven One with a Kuzma 4point tonearm and the sound is nothing but dark.

But it is important that you place it on a hard surface. I have mine on a plate made of slate.

Dear WRM57 the gentleman is questioning if he should purchase a Raven or not? Therefore it is not rude to mention other tables.

If I was that gentleman I would gladly welcome any information on other products that I might want to consider.

You guys should get off your dealer is a bad guy soap box and consider the facts that a dealer has way more experience than most of the posters on these sites, and in most situations their is no real sales motive, as many perspective clients are not in the same part of the country which would make a direct sale impossible or there may be another dealer that would be servicing that part of the country.

Consider if you are actually shopping for anything the best way of gathering information is to talk to a whole group of people and do a lot of research and if possible experience the product for yourself.

I have been doing this professionally for over 25 years and in that time I have discovered many products that became audio all stars many from different emerging new companies.

I look at design rather than hype, and I can tell you that invariably a better design will usually lead to a better sounding product.

Way too many audiogoners are too dogmatic to even consider looking at anything else than what they are inquiring about.

New products are always coming into the market and a good dealer will always look at these new products to see if it is possible to offer better performance to their clients instead of towing the same old line.

I am not saying the Raven isn't a great table, what I was pointing out is that there are a couple of radical new tables that this gentleman may want to consider, that may offer more performance for the same money or for less money.

The Merrill isn't pretty in pictures but looks great in person, it is the best sounding table I have every heard for a reasonable amount of money it is scary good, and I have sold and setup most of the major tables out there.

It is not possible to compare anything to a Raven as Raven is sold direct by one man who does not believe in sharing his line with dealers, this is a total mistake as it limits the possibility of people being able to hear the table across the country, if that was the case I would have gotten a Raven years ago and then I could easily tell you if these other tables are way better or not.

I have owned a AC 1 in various avtars for close to 2.5 years. To the OPs query is it dark sounding, most emphatically not IME.As Halcro rightly points out you can tweak a TT to optimise its sound in various ways, record clamp, mat, isolation etc.If by dark sounding you mean that the highs are muted or rolled over, its possible to achieve that with the TW by placing rubber dampers under the feet, as I discovered. I had my tone arm, a Talea 2,initially mounted on a wooden armboard. Switching to the TW supplied SS arm mount has led to clearer and cleaner definition of notes almost as if the TT has picked up speed.
I am somewhat sceptical of generalisations, particularly in respect of TTs, that a particular model or brand is bright/dark sounding, given the large variables at play. For example, when you demo a TT at a dealers what is the likelihood of the cart being precisely aligned with a Mint tractor or equivalent ?
The TW AC is one of the truly outatanding TTs available today. I am not saying its the best because there is no such thing. Having heard a pile of different TT setups at the Adelphi in Singapore over the years, I can say that the TW is among the handful of must audition TTs for anyone contemplating a TT at this price point.
As an aside, if you do go the AC3 route, you may like to consider, the TW BN single 3 motor unit as against the 3 separate motors of the AC unit. I am not sure but I suspect that there is not much of a price difference if you order it as a package. Additionall, the battery powered PSU does lower the noise floor though I suspect this is of a lesser magnitude in terms of improvements as the unit runs, at least IME, for less than 4 hrs on battery power before switching to the mains.
All the best in your vinyl journey
Cheers
Pradeep

Audiooracle -

The new Merrill Williams is dramatically less expensive than the Raven, yet can easily compete with the Raven

It is not possible to compare anything to a Raven...if that was the case I would have gotten a Raven years ago and then I could easily tell you if these other tables are way better or not.

Seems to be a contradictory comment here - you are saying that the MW is as good as a Raven, but you have never heard a Raven in your system.

In the Raven AC price range I would look also at the Spiral Groove & Basis turntables. Halcro's comments above are on the money re the Raven.

Dear Dover,

Read the reviews on the Merrill it is being compared to the most expensive tables on the market, and George does have several new customers who have purchased the Merrill after comparing to their tables which were much more expensive, tables that were over $20k!

I am being honest I never had a Raven in my system I can tell you that the sound of the Merrill is way better than my customers $50k Basis, as per the Spiral Groove I have heard that table and it is nice there is nothing magical about it. Go find a Merrill and Listen to it, it sounds amazing and for the money is a bargain, look at Merrill's background and you will see that almost all modern table's borrow some of the ideas Merrill started incorporating into his table in 1981!

The new Merill REAL table blows away the Merrill Scalia which was a $24k table.

All I am saying is to look at a design and see if it makes real sense in terms of solving a problem, with most of these tables I see more hype than originality in coming up with real solutions.

The entire reason an analog rig sounds the way it does is how energy is stored or removed, lighter weight english PRAT tables tend to sound that way due to lighter materials with higher resonant frequencies and a faster removal of resonances, higher mass tables tend to have the big bassy quiet sound due to a slower movement of energy and heavier materials resonating differently.

You can draw your own conclusions or look at reviews the Merrill is a real breakthrough the Raven is not, again I am not saying the Raven isn't a good table there is nothing unique in the design, just a well executed conventional design with very good materials and superb construction.