Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

I think we can all agree that it is possible for a turntable to be "Timeline speed accurate" and sound bad, for other reasons. It is also possible for a turntable to be slightly inaccurate for speed under load and still sound great.

Dear Raul, Your cabeza is como un rock when it comes to tubes vs transistors, but could you not at least admit that the "distortion" (your word for everything that is not perfect) due to "tubes" would be qualitatively categorically different from distortion due to turntable speed aberration. So, why do you even bring it up on this thread? The subject is not relevant.

Thuchan, I completely agree with you that Timeline is the most accurate device. I added SDS to my VPI table soon after Timeline became available. Seeing how it was such a nifty toy, I bought one before I even own any strobe. I was surprised when my local dealer came over to set up my VPI using Kab strobe and when I put on Timeline, I could see how far off Kab strobe was in comparison to Timeline.
Initially I was glad I bought Timeline and even told my local dealer that they need to get one immediately because otherwise they cannot set up turntable properly.

Now a few years later, having gone through 2 Micro Seiki Turntable, 2 VPI tables and TW (keeping 3), I became a bit disillusion about Timeline. First, yes, I can dial in SDS and Micro Seiki and get steady line with Timeline. TW is always either a bit faster or slowly as the interval on speed controller is larger than SDS (I am using BN battery powered controller, no I don't know if my hold 20 hours charge but on my day off, I can use my TW for several hours with no need to recharge). I always measure with arm down on the table. The whole usual routine and tried to be as accurate as possible. One thing I could never compensated for though is the actual mass of Timeline itself. On TW, I prefer using no center weight. VPI HRX center weight is 6-700g if I remember correctly. I use Orsonic clamp with Micro Seiki. I have a few center weights lying around and tried many more up to 1 kg but this is currently what I have. Timeline itself unfortunately does not work so well for me as center weight otherwise it would solve the biggest problem for me. If I remember correctly, Timeline is about 200 odd grams. Using Timeline instead of my usual center weight, I will get one speed but as soon as I take off Timeline and put on my usual center weight, the speed will be changed.
Timeline is so sensitive that even a 200g weight change on a heavy Microseiki or TW platter, you can detect speed difference. Try calibrating speed with Timeline using 120g LP and 200g LP, you will notice a change in speed as well.
Does every Timeline user recalibrate or make a note to adjust speed controller every time they change LP?
How do you compensate for differences in mass of center weight use or if you don't use center weight.
This drives me nut for a while until I finally realize that it is not simple to acheive 100% accurate speed per Timeline reading in practice. Looks nice on paper, sounds great in theory but at the end of the day, I just settled for getting close enough to Timeline is just a-okay.
After I stop obsessing with fidgetting with Timeline, it was a lot easier to enjoy the music.
I still use Timeline as I did not bother to buy a strobe. On TW, I just pick the speed that is just a tad slower than Timeline's speed figuring that without Timeline, it will speed up a tad. On VPI SDS/Micro Seiki, I could dial in perfectly but I know that as soon as I put on my usual center weight, speed will be a bit off and I settled for that. I usually use 180g Lp to calibrate, when I listen to 120g, 100g, 200g LP, I know that speed will be a bit off as well and I settled for that as well.
Absolute speed accuracy is nice but the only acceptable speed, I don't think so.

Raul, Lewn, I also totally agree with you completely.

I'm fortunate in having two turntables......the DD Victor TT-101 which keeps perfect speed via the Timeline regardless of record clamps, weight of record, type of cartridge and VTA......and even regardless of whether there are no arms tracking the record or three arms tracking the record.
The other turntable......the Raven AC-2 which must be set with the cartridge tracking the grooves and can get very, very close to complete accuracy via the Timeline.....but because of its controller, will be either slightly fast or slightly slow. But consistently so.
The differences in sound due to the timing in the two turntables is undetectable in my system so Raul, Lew and Suteetat are all correct in their predictions on this issue.
As long as a turntable is revolving at a CONSISTENT speed........whether slightly slow or fast........is all that really matters.

Suteetat,
very helpful description of your experiences. In fact Timeline is a precise instrument but for daily business I prefer my Allnic or my Kuzma strobe. I use the Allnic on my Micro SX 8000 (the blue one). It is nice to put the light in a permanent position switching it on when you fix the clamp. Calibrating then with the SDS is very easy and precise.

Regarding the different weights of the clamps or strobes I am a bit careful when using heavy ones. Usually I don't use them on air supported TTs.

BTW I agree with your experience that the Koetsu Coralstone is a very good match with the Micro Seiki on a FR-66 tonearm.

Hi Blammy,

my apology must have been someone else who was doing it years ago for TW in Germany, a mag named "LP"

Dgad,

yes my bearing had the ball bearing on top, yours must be an older design if it is the same as the AC because my AC was the same description you are referring to.

Guys I'm a pretty straight forward shooter, I'm just providing my own first hand experience. You don't have to agree that's okay, at lease one owner "Dgad" whom owns one has acknowledged he had the same issues in two areas.

As per my prior posts yes I did buy and own numerous TW products. Raven one was the most disappointing purchase after I got the AC3 and compared.

AC3, nice table - then comes my purchase of the BN. Physical appearance for me was night and day over the AC3 but should be at more than double the asking price, I appreciated the BN sonic wise.

So what happened Dgad?

Well after that "NEW PRODUCT" syndrome wore off specific things bothered me besides the numerous flaws I have mentioned previously. We are talking about a very expensive table here, $40 + K

At that time I could not get the speed to lock in as Dgad also mentioned with his. My controller unit had been sent back due to only being able to hold a 4-5 hour charge when on battery. I could hear a difference, as Dgad has written he had a similar experience.

Being in contact with both Jeff and Thomas I was basically being told "your crazy there is no difference being heard and the table runs on a accurate speed and the hours mentioned for battery is approx." and so on.

So be it.

At a point I found myself at a dead end so I started checking out other tables to learn more. I have learned allot and that there are all kinds of flavours, in the end really is subjective as I have read on numerous postings but I'm after what I like not others.

I know set-up, phono settings etc is important and have that covered and I always chuckle when specific individuals suggest there may be an issue there.

I'm happy where I'm at and don't see me saying it's the best sounding and best built, I always have the door open to try.

I actually have two tables, one that's been talked about in another forum mostly. Very interesting pce but very costly, also comes from Japan :-)

Rauliruegas, buy a TW BN table and place it in your system and then we can talk but until then you just won't get it.

Also you might want to keep an open mind in relation to Syntax table set-up, you just might learn something. :-)I know I have.

Obviously there was more going on then just not being able to hold an accurate speed but Dgad says at least that's now been resolved, good to hear.

I like it when manufactures listen, didn't originally to me but something must have happened.

I gotta go catch some waves so hang loose.