Are loudspeakers that different?

There are huge differences between all audio components, check out opinions here on Audiogon thread archives and try www.audioasylum.com for more information about the differences between various speakers and cd players.

Sdcampbell is entirely correct. Speakers exhibit by far more variability than any other component in the audio chain. The winds of audiophile fashion have blown from various quarters over the years. Right now the fashion is to say, "The source is everything," which sounds good but just ain't so. You'll hear people say, "A good source can make a cheap speaker sound good," and that is true up to a rather limited point. But the electronics will not change the essential CHARACTER of the sound that the speakers produce. Read the endless threads about single-driver versus multi-driver systems, or about e'statics versus dynamics or about ported versus closed-box versus TL versus horn cabinet designs. Any of these designs, well executed, can produce glorious sound but the character of that sound will tend to be different on the basis of the fundamental characteristics of the designs, themselves. If a horn speaker sounds hooty (the "Winchester Cathedral" sound) with one set of electronics, then it will sound hooty with every set of electronics. If a Lowther design truncates the ends of the frequency spectrum in favor of a delicious midrange, then various electronics might make a little difference, but not a whole lot because the foundational characteristics of the sound of a Lowther system are bounded by the design of the driver, not the electrons coursing through it.

I'm from time to time bemused to visit the homes of new or old audiophile friends and find them listening to hideously expensive electronics, cables, and power systems played through cheap speakers, saying as they do so, "Well, you know, the source is everything." Then they come to my house, where they hear good but not splendiferous electronics (Belles, Rega, etc.) played through absolutely fantastic speakers. And their eyes pop out. Not that my system is the be-all-and-end-all of everything by any means, but simply because they discover how much impact on the sound of the system depends on the speakers.

Let me just close on an objectivist note here, because I know some of y'all are itching to get to the bottom of this post and start writing rebuttals. :) The literature is replete with instances in which critical listeners in short-term ABX trials have been unable to differentiate among various amplifiers or preamps or cables or other source-related elements. Now, without going into all the interesting things that could, can, and will be said about the limitations of ABX testing, keep in mind that virtually EVERYONE, in ABX speaker comparisons, can reliably differentiate among different speakers. That's a telling point.

But, hey, when all is said and done do what gives you pleasure and satisfaction. That is, or should be, the name of the audio game.

Good luck and let us know what you choose.

will

Hi, "Bishop":

It's always nice to find someone else who shares my opinions (grin)...

The one point I failed to make in my original post, which is an important factor in speaker design, is the importance of the enclosure. Every other aspect of a speaker's design can be good, but if the cabinet is too resonant, or has diffractive edges, or etc., etc., etc., then the speaker is not going to sound good.

More money for a speaker usually ensures better cabinets -- but not always. Sometimes, more money just buys nicer cosmetic touches, such as really beautiful rosewood veneer. In a number of audio articles I've read over the past 5 years, various writers have commented that the cost of the speaker's cabinet can account for up to 65% of the overall manufacturing cost.

As a comparive discussion point, consider the Vandersteen line, which spends relatively little money on exterior cosmetics (except for the Model 5). Vandersteen instead spends the manufacturing portion of the budget on top quality drivers, crossover components, and solid cabinetry. The cabinets are made of MDF, with excellent internal bracing, but the jersey sock which covers everything costs very little.

My own experience directly parallels Bishop's: really good speakers driven by competent but not top-of-the-line electronics will -- 99% of the time -- sound better than average speakers driven by very costly source and amplifier electronics.

Another variable...listening room! Jimmy2615, you didn't say where you auditioned these speakers! There are many schlock "high-end dealers" who don't have a clue about proper set-up. And a speaker will always sound different in your own home. I once auditioned a pair of Maggie 1.6's that were powered by a 50 watt amp (way, WAY underpowered) and connected by "zip cord". In addition, there were 20 other speakers in the room, all resonating, and one wall of the room was GLASS!! I bought the Maggies anyway, and with proper set up and power, I really loved them!

Jimmy, Scott and Will are correct, in general, though I might disagree with them about the speakers they prefer,and probably disagree a lot about any notions of "synergy." Well-designed cd players and amps are not hard to find, and if well designed, will not differ by much. Just look at the measurements. The noise floor (distortion components mostly) of electronic components is much lower than that of speakers. Plus, the measured frequency response of almost all electronic components is fairly close to flat, whereas speakers tend to vary quite a bit.

There are hundreds and hundreds of speakers in the market, some of them very poorly designed, and there is not much correlation between price and quality. Look at John Atkinson's measurements of some very expensive speakers in the latest Stereophile and read between the lines of his comments. An "enigma" because they sound good to the reviewer but measure weird, means he doesnt know what his reviewer was smoking.

With respect, and fondness, I believe Craig is incorrect when he says that the big differences in speakers are at the frequency extremes. In fact, the big differences are in the midrange, except for really poor designs showing through in the upper bass (boom) and treble (excessive sibilance or lispiness).

In the $2500 retail price range, there are some very good speakers. I dont think it's necessary to spend any more than that for speakers, and there are some wonderful small speakers at lower price points (e.g., Harbeth HLP3ES's and Epos M12's - neither of which do I own). The Vandersteens are well received by consumers as well as reviewers, at very reasonable price points. At all price points, from $200 to $30k and above, there are some absolutely horrible speakers.

Audition as many speakers as you need to before you find a pair that you like. If they have been reviewed with measurements, take the measurements seriously. Finally, consider the effect of your room. Hard reflective surfaces, like low ceilings, nearby walls and coffee tables, will affect the frequency response at your listening position, regardless of which speakers you choose.

Paul