High Current vs high power

08-26-13: Bifwynne
Al and Ralph, it amazes me how this technical issue just keeps on giving.

LOL! & so true...
but it's good to see that more & more people are beginning to ask this question & are desirous of understanding this electrical interface. This is good! I'm reminded of a clothing company that I * think* is no longer in business - Syms - their slogan was "an educated customer is the best customer". I feel the same for this hobby (obsession?) of audio. The more the users understand, the more the manuf will be vary of try to pull wool over the users' eyes & the more truthful the specs will be.
On the flip side - Look across the pond in the EC countries - hardly anyone over there buys audio equipment based on specs. And, they manuf some really nice sounding gear!
In the USA (& maybe Canada too?) we are obsessed with specs & make that our guiding light in our decisions....

Kelpie, i 2nd Bifynne - read his other threads where several of us have contributed to clearing up the air. It's extensive reading but it will help a lot.

Bombaywalla +1 a thousand times. Over many years I have discovered specs are really useless. Not even a guideline (like I used to think). It's all about total system synergy. Certain components work better with others and will be horrible with others. Best to take advantage of in home demos. Second would to audition at a friends or dealers with as much of what you own and want to keep (evens if it means bringing some of your own equipment - I've done it). I understand that isn't always possible so if you post a thread best to include Equipment - Room Size - type of music and what sound you look to change. Very important also what you like and don't like.

Ok that being said I didn't answer you question but here is an experience I had. Had a Bryston B100sst driving Dynaudio C1's which is rated at 85db The Bryston B100 was rated @ 180W at 4ohms. I thought more power would make the Dyn C1's sound better. I found 2 integrateds that sounded much more powerful especially in controlling the sound. Naim Supernait and Octave V70se (both rated at 70W). I bought the Octave and have since upgraded to the V110 (again a little more control).

Most important this is what I experienced. Short story - forget specs and just listen.

George, I would respectfully, but very strongly, disagree with the notion that specs, and a good understanding of them, are useless.

Yes, specs will generally provide little if any insight into how a component will sound. And I certainly agree that "buying based on specs" is almost certain to result in expensive mistakes.

However, I doubt that any serious audiophile having even a tiny modicum of experience "buys based on specs." Although those who express disdain for specs commonly seem to make the IMO false assumption that those who consider specs to provide value do buy in that manner.

The very considerable value specs can provide, as I see it, is that when purchase decisions are being made they allow candidates to be RULED OUT, on the basis that they would be poor matches with either other components in the system (e.g. impedance incompatibilities, gain and sensitivity mismatches, etc.), or with the listener's requirements (e.g., dynamic range and maximum volume capability).

Without taking advantage of those kinds of benefits that can be provided by specs (and a good understanding of them), the randomness of the component selection process increases greatly. As does the likelihood of expensive mistakes.

Regards,
-- Al

Thank you Bombaywalla. Thanks also to Al and Ralph.

Agree with Al's last post. Stats, IMO, while not controlling factors, are nonetheless relevant and informative.

As I posted some time ago, I rued matching my ARC tube amp with my Paradigm Sig 8 v3 speakers. The S8s looked like the most tube unfriendly speakers one would want to match with a tube amp. And the truth be told, a Paradigm tech person strongly advised that the S8s should be driven with a high current/high power SS amp. Oooopps.

What confounded me was why my ARC VS-115 tube amp seemed to do a pretty good job driving the S8s even though on paper one might think otherwise. Well, it may still be the case that a high power/high current SS amp very well may be a better match with my S8s.

But then again, after a ba-zillion on line and off line messages with Al and Ralph I finally started to understand why my ARC amp did a good job with the S8s. There's a very important stat that I overlooked -- my amp's output impedance. Al and Ralph had to use a carbide steel drill bit before I finally got it in my head that a tube amp with "relatively" low output impedance and moderate negative feedback might perform somewhat like a Voltage Paradigm amp -- that is a SS amp.

In fact, ARC's literature reports, as confirmed by John Atkinson and Soundstage magazine, that the output voltage regulation of my old VS-115 and current Ref 150 off the 4 ohm taps is +/- .4 or .5 db regardless of speaker impedance and frequency. In addition, the damping factor of both amps, while not 1000:1, is still respectable. And that folks is why my ARC tube amps are able to do a credible job driving my "tube unfriendly" S8s.

Does that mean I should forego live auditions?? No. Does that mean stats tell me everything? No. But as Al just said above, if I have an interest in road testing a tube amp that performs like a Voltage Paradigm amp with a so called "tube unfriendly" speaker I should still give it a whirl (audition). I might be pleasantly surprised. And I have been!

So IMO a basic understanding of stats does have some benefit and informative value.

Thanks again Al and Ralph.

Bruce

P.S. I have a passing interest in checking out the Revel Studio 2 speakers. Revel's sales literature and member comments both state that the Studio 2s will sound best when driven by a high power SS amp. That sounds familiar. But I think Al might say don't automatically rule out trying the Studio 2s with my ARC tube gear. One day I just might!