Record clamps: do they really make a difference.

Dear Dover: ++++++ " If a record is not flat, do you think it sounds better with half the record not supported, floating in mid air ? " +++++++

what do you think?, I infere that you are against it.

Other than W.Benesh there were at least two other TT proponents precisely to leave wide part of the LP in the air supported by small tiptoes like or something else.

I can't remember the precise opinions about but several years ago I did that kind of excercise and not so bad at all and maybe is time to do it again and see what happen. Sometimes in audio is benefitial to think and try " ideas " out of the box.

Why not?, we have to lose nothing but to have " fun time " testing it.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

The record clamp better couples the vinyl disc to the platter. If the turntable has a bad or noisy bearing, and/or is not well isolated, then expect the sound to be worse with the clamp. All of the external vibrations are going to be efficiently transmitted through the record to the stylus when it is well coupled to the platter.
The analog system starts by creating vibrations- actually recreating the vibrations frozen into the vinyl disc. Any variance from those vibrations in the disc is distortion. The turntable must also accurately recreate the time domain, ie. the correct speed. If the record is not fixed firmly and flat to the platter, then how can there not be added distortion? The record can slip on the platter, or it can buzz being excited by the moving stylus. Any warps causes reaction at the tonearm/stylus and also affects the time domain- as does eccentricty of the disc.

Interesting comment from someone that too much damping as in using a periphial ring sucked the life out of the music. I wonder if it was really that or some incompatibility between the record, mat and platter. I don't see how it could suck the life out of the record since the record is the source of the vibrations- not reflecting them.

Tony, Reproducing or creating "The life" in an LP is often serendipitous, to my way of thinking. Thus if I like the sound from the LP better without the clamp vs with, or without a peripheral ring vs with, I don't go to pieces emotionally, fretting over what is "wrong" with my system. It is entirely possible that doing without a clamp or ring does introduce euphonic distortion; I don't give a shit. Life is short. Plus, I think we all kid ourselves about the degree to which the results of little tweaks actually are predictable.

I know of three examples of commercial products that in fact minimize all contact between LP and platter: the old Transcriptor's turntables, the well known Ringmat, and the new Resomat (I forget who makes that). I don't necessarily endorse that extreme opposite from using a weight or ring, but some do. Those who like them, love them.

No question, LP slipping on a mat is not a good thing. I do worry about that, which is one thing I have in mind when I do use the SOTA clamp, un-clamped.

I think record weights and peripheral rings are like religion or your favorite baseball team; everyone has a right to his or her opinion, and converting people to your own belief system is often futile.

Hi Lewm, I have been using the Sota reflex clamp religously for 21 years now. I think that for me to play a record without it now would be almost as hard for me as walking naked in public. (btw- I hate those dreams). I believe in it for the reasons that I cited while at the same time knowing that my reasons could be all wet. I have learned some things through experimentation and I have improved my analog sound with better isolation and dampening materials. I have been pleasantly surprised by some changes that I made using different materials; getting more than I expected and I have experienced disappointments when changes made things worse.
I will not presume to tell people that they must use a clamp. Like I said, I have used the clamp for so long, perhaps I should try a record without it once and see what happens. I'm just not sure that I can take that first step...

I think the issue of clamps or weights is too equipment-specific to permit generalized recommendations. In my case, a number of years ago when I used a VPI 19 Mk3, I thought the stock clamp improved the sound without any negatives, so I used it all the time. When I switched to a Galibier table, I started out with the heavy PVC platter (14 lbs) and I spent many hours experimenting with the 6 lb weight (appropriately named the Anvil) that came with it. The Anvil is an aluminum weight that is filled with lead shot and oil. What I found is that the Anvil consistently did some very good things but also some not-so-good things. In other words, there were tradeoffs when using it. To complicate matters further, the type of reflex washer made a significant difference as well. On balance, I usually ended up using the Anvil but I was always aware that I was sacrificing in some areas.

Fortunately, this all changed when I upgraded the platter to what Thom Mackris now calls the Gavia platter. This is an even heavier (32 lbs) aluminum platter filled with lead shot, oil and PVC damping materials and topped off with a graphite top plate. This new platter sounds much better than the old PVC platter but it also consistently sounds better when used bareback, i.e. without the Anvil or reflex washer. This makes life much simpler.

So the takeaway as far as I'm concerned is that it is difficult to generalize about clamps. With some equipment and to some users, they may be an overall improvement, but to others not. You just have to try it for yourself and reach your own conclusion. One thing can be stated unequivocally---a record weight or clamp does change the sound. Anyone who says differently hasn't listened carefully enough in my opinion.