Record clamps: do they really make a difference.

Tony, Reproducing or creating "The life" in an LP is often serendipitous, to my way of thinking. Thus if I like the sound from the LP better without the clamp vs with, or without a peripheral ring vs with, I don't go to pieces emotionally, fretting over what is "wrong" with my system. It is entirely possible that doing without a clamp or ring does introduce euphonic distortion; I don't give a shit. Life is short. Plus, I think we all kid ourselves about the degree to which the results of little tweaks actually are predictable.

I know of three examples of commercial products that in fact minimize all contact between LP and platter: the old Transcriptor's turntables, the well known Ringmat, and the new Resomat (I forget who makes that). I don't necessarily endorse that extreme opposite from using a weight or ring, but some do. Those who like them, love them.

No question, LP slipping on a mat is not a good thing. I do worry about that, which is one thing I have in mind when I do use the SOTA clamp, un-clamped.

I think record weights and peripheral rings are like religion or your favorite baseball team; everyone has a right to his or her opinion, and converting people to your own belief system is often futile.

Hi Lewm, I have been using the Sota reflex clamp religously for 21 years now. I think that for me to play a record without it now would be almost as hard for me as walking naked in public. (btw- I hate those dreams). I believe in it for the reasons that I cited while at the same time knowing that my reasons could be all wet. I have learned some things through experimentation and I have improved my analog sound with better isolation and dampening materials. I have been pleasantly surprised by some changes that I made using different materials; getting more than I expected and I have experienced disappointments when changes made things worse.
I will not presume to tell people that they must use a clamp. Like I said, I have used the clamp for so long, perhaps I should try a record without it once and see what happens. I'm just not sure that I can take that first step...

I think the issue of clamps or weights is too equipment-specific to permit generalized recommendations. In my case, a number of years ago when I used a VPI 19 Mk3, I thought the stock clamp improved the sound without any negatives, so I used it all the time. When I switched to a Galibier table, I started out with the heavy PVC platter (14 lbs) and I spent many hours experimenting with the 6 lb weight (appropriately named the Anvil) that came with it. The Anvil is an aluminum weight that is filled with lead shot and oil. What I found is that the Anvil consistently did some very good things but also some not-so-good things. In other words, there were tradeoffs when using it. To complicate matters further, the type of reflex washer made a significant difference as well. On balance, I usually ended up using the Anvil but I was always aware that I was sacrificing in some areas.

Fortunately, this all changed when I upgraded the platter to what Thom Mackris now calls the Gavia platter. This is an even heavier (32 lbs) aluminum platter filled with lead shot, oil and PVC damping materials and topped off with a graphite top plate. This new platter sounds much better than the old PVC platter but it also consistently sounds better when used bareback, i.e. without the Anvil or reflex washer. This makes life much simpler.

So the takeaway as far as I'm concerned is that it is difficult to generalize about clamps. With some equipment and to some users, they may be an overall improvement, but to others not. You just have to try it for yourself and reach your own conclusion. One thing can be stated unequivocally---a record weight or clamp does change the sound. Anyone who says differently hasn't listened carefully enough in my opinion.

Since your cartridge/tonearm must follow the plane of the record, the primary purpose of a clamp is to level the playing surface. A flat surface reduces dramatic up/down cartridge motions, resulting in better tracking. Other perceived benefits of a clamp are adjunct. A mat cannot physically accomplish this.

Raul
Yes - check out the Meitner turntable from the 80's. It had no platter, clamped the record under/over the record label portion and left the playing surface unsupported. Many audiophiles here tried various versions and iterations - loss of resolution. The unsupported record gave a smooth sound which was alluring, but lacked resolution ( detail ) and leading edge.
I have tried the Resomat on various decks - coloured, tizzy and lacks information compared to an unclamped copper mat.

I also had a Roksan which had a removable spindle whjlst playing ( ET2/Carnergie ). A small subtle difference when spindle removed for playing.

I will use a clamp or stabiliser if it improves resolution. I dont look for a pretty sound, I want to get as much information off the record as possible, with accurate timing, accurate preservation of harmonic structure etc and minimal addition of spurious artefacts and distortions with the playback system.

Whether the use of clamps/weights is better or worse is going to depend on the quality of design and the platter underneath. There has been no explanation here on the clamp design by contributors who have posted their findings. In my view most folk here are using clamps/stabilisers/rags/record mats simply as tone controls to get a sound they like.

Someone here uses the Sota Reflex clamp as a weight only - reflex not engaged, probably no washer. Surely a disservice to the designer - if you are going to comment on a product run it as per the manual/designers intent, reflex clamp engaged with washer under the record, and with the matching Sota mat. By the way for Sota clamp users, there is adjustment available of the "grip level" and reflex action that should be adjusted for your spindle to get the clamp working at an optimum.

As I stated above most weights/stabilisers are flat bottomed and merely sit on the label. They are not improving the coupling of the record to the platter, they are simply a weight on the label that would alter the resonant characteristics of the the record. In the case of reflex style clamps they are coupling the record to the spindle as well as the platter and this may be detrimental on a poorly designed turntable.

On my Final Audio the 1.8kg stabiliser has a rim that applies pressure only at the edge of the record label. I made a series of washers of varying thickness to sit under the record. In this way I can optimise the coupling for records of varying thickness, rigidity etc to get the maximum surface coupling to the copper (4.5kg) mat that has a recess for the label and is designed specifically for the stabiliser/washer system. In this system with or without the clamp soft mats tried such as leather, Sota gauze mat ( cant remember the name ), felt all lose resolution ( detail ). I have not tried the much vaunted pigskin that Halcro uses.

Halcro if you are reading this you will be pleased to know that 47 Labs makes both a pigskin and doeskin mat you might want to investigate.