I Just Know It's BS ... But I Have't Tried It Yet

BRownsfan,

I agree with you in theory and hope for the same in reality.

"On rare occasions, I saw chemical reactions proceed in ways that seemed to make absolutely no sense based on the laws of chemistry and physics."

I see things in my companies tech labs all the time that make little sense. THey do not go "to production" as actual products or solutions until they do. To do anything otherwise would negatively affect the business and its customers.

I'd bet no products based on those unclear chemical reactions were sold either until better understood.

THe stakes in audio are lesser I suppose, so not quite the same. What's the worse that can happen? Someone ends up unhappy and feeling cheated I suppose. OR not. So its a different game there for sure. It's largely about what people think or feel which is totally subjective. The good thing about a placebo is the worst thing that can happen to you is ..... nothing. Not much downside other than money spent. Products are marketed based on this principle all the time. Nothing so special about home audio there.

So Sabai you have all the money in the world to try every tweak? I sometimes want to try these tweaks but at times I question what I'm paying for. An example is the WA Quantum chips. I can't get myself to pay $7.50 for a sticker to place on my fuse that will supposedly make great changes to my system. $7.50 for a little sticker. I'd rather put that money toward a record. Or you have stuff from Synergistic Research where you pay $400 for 4 things that look like socket wrench ends to place on your wall. This will then improve sound drastically. Sorry I just can't pull the trigger on that either.

Mapman, what you say is correct. In many respects, a movement away from statistics and toward first principle understanding and modeling provided a better level of certainty with respect to outcome. However, in early development proceeding with interim manufacture with minimal understanding is quite common. In industries where the attrition rate of developmental products is quite high, it does not make sense to spend that much money until it is clear a product is going to go to market. In my industry, a lack of understanding at a mechanistic level does not represent a potential risk to the customer.

Not only are the stakes lower in audio, but the ability and resources of the average Audiogon poster, be they skeptic or innocent gullible fool, does not permit that level of analysis. I've never seen the sort of thing Sabai is complaining about addressed via a first principles argument. It usually runs more along the lines of you're a stupid idiot, na na na na na na.

I know I won't spend my time pursuing that level of understanding in audio.

Even if such an argument were presented, it does not address the far more unpredictable human response. Assuming the tweak produces even a marginal difference in sound, that difference could be objectively either "better" or "worse," which may or may not correlate to a listener's subjective response to that difference.

I think Jedinite's comment is a good one. Some of these products could have some scientific basis, but if they are marketed behind metaphysical mumbo jumbo, I'm probably not going to bite.

Trust has a lot to do with it.

I don't trust anyone who solely pitches pros and NEVER addresses cons. All products have both. If depicted otherwise, a big red flag should go up.

I don't mind "fanboys" ie people who just like certain things for whatever reasons.

However, many who post on Agon are not merely fan boys and have products to sell and this site does nothing to identify user types. So motivation behind claims often becomes very murky, but less so once one knows who they are dealing with.

Its easy to recommend or like a product when one gets to audition or even own it for a discount or perhaps for nothing. In a case like that, there is little skin in the game as would be the case for the average perspective buyer. Its all useful things to just keep in mind to help sort through things. The facts are NOT always apparent. So some degree of skepticism here specifically is a wise thing IMHO.