What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire

Jeffkad, I truly hope I haven't bullied you, although I admit cajoling you a little.

I do believe based on your shared exprience here that the Sunfire equipment seems to be a good match for you.

Since you've expressed some desire to understand why you aren't hearing what you believe you should be hearing, I have offered some suggestions. If my suggestions have in any way come across as elitist or preachy, then I apologize for not communicating the ideas more effectively. Sometimes, it's difficult to have a discussion on a written page rather than face to face. Meanings are sometimes misconstrued.

Have fun.

Jim, thanks for your input. IME, improvements have been more subtle then not. For the many upgrades and tweaks I've been through, I can count on one hand what I would call both immediate and significant upgrades. I guess it depends also on what your ideas of subtle or significant are with this hobby, though I think we can all agree in a general sense.

My experience has prob been repeated many times before -- each new/better piece brings a small improvement, over time the sum is greater then the whole was before. Certainly my stereo now is significantly better then when I started. Tvad, thanks for your insights.

Tvad, sorry for the late reply. Been busy. I really appreciate your response. No, LOL, you haven't nor couldn't have bullied me in any way. I don't get bullied, period. I was preaching in a general way, and I used the term only in the sense that some people, especially newbies, may tend to feel overwhelmed by those that have supposedly superior experience, and may feel compelled to believe what the "gurus" say even if they don't really hear a difference themselves. As for your communication skills, yes, you can be curt from time to time (LOL), but I don't take you as preachy or elitist. More a pragmatist actually. Truthfully, on this topic and many others, I genuinely appreciate your comments. The only time I felt I needed to come back at you was when I felt you were incorrectly labeling me as tortured, etc. So, no offense taken, and your comments and opinions are always welcome. Best...Jeff

Speaking from experience, as I've owned both the TGP-5 and TGA-5200, they're decent gear (and the amp gives you the option to mimic a tube amp in some respects). I just sold both the pre/pro and amp over the past several months. During the time I owned them, I also owned a Musical Fidelity A5 and a Musical Fidelity A308 (both integrated amps).

The differences between the Sunfire and MF amps were on the subtle side, not a "wow" change at all. They sounded a little different, but neither provided you a huge leap in detail or clarity over the other with all other things being constant (though they are different animals, the 5200 being class D, the musical fidelity amps being class a/class a/b I believe).

One thing you're dealing with here is the use of a pre-amp. The only time I discerned a big difference in detail or dynamics was when I removed the pre/pro (or any preamp) from the signal chain and used either a DAC with volume attenuation or in my case, a computer, to control the volume. The pre/pro, while it does a good job, will "dilute" the source signal, as do most preamps that I've used or encountered (unless built directly into the source component like a DAC). This was the same scenario when using the Musical Fidelity amps where I bypassed the onboard integrated preamp and drove it directly through it's "home theater bypass" inputs.

The only time I got a wow factor out of changing amps was going from the afore mentioned equipment to a tube amp, but that's just a different sound altogether (and not necessarily better to some people). The wow factor to me came from never having owned a tube amp before.

Much like power cords, ICs and any other piece to the equation, most changes aren't wholesale improvements, just incremental steps in one direction or another (and not always forward or for the better).

 For anyone who still cares, here's an update with some very interesting news: I heard a difference between amps!

Actually, it was the same amp, my Sunfire.  As a previous poster reminded me, the Sunfire offers two different outputs: voltage, which is like typical ss amp, and current, which is supposed to mirror tube amp.  I had never played with current output, assuming I would much prefer the clarity and dynamics of the voltage/ss sound.  

Well, I finally tried it and wow, it was not a subtle difference!  It became very apparent on a Bocelli CD that I preferred the tube-like sound, and my 11 yr old son noticed instantly as well, also preferring the current output. I'm really hearing a significant difference here between the two outputs:

With the voltage outs that are typical SS, the music is in your face, the soundstage is at a single plane, all notes at same level, no depth, and (if I'm using the correct terminology) the "leading edge" or "attack" of notes are quite pronounced, overshadowing the balance of the note (ie, cymbals, rim shots, pluck of guitar string or piano key strike). Sometimes this is quite startling, sometimes in a good "wow, what impact/clarity" way, sometimes in a bad "turn down the volume" way. Sound is quite good for acoustic and small ensemble stuff, but the faster, bigger, brighter and/or more complicated the music, the worse it sounds, making me want to turn it down more often than not.

With the current outs that supposedly tube-like in character, it's almost exactly the opposite, and on the whole, significantly better, although there are those moments when I do miss the wow moments. Handclaps are more natural, everything much more listenable. The most remarkable difference: the notes and the soundstage has depth. The best way I can describe the soundstage is like you took a picture/painting where all the images were on a single upright plane and laid it down flat and then the images stood up like in a pop-up display, staggered in depth. The notes, while lacking in the initial impact, have a more even "attack/decay", allowing more depth and detail, and allowing more clarity and distinction between instruments and also vocals. This induces me to increase the volume as opposed to decreasing the volume with the voltage/ss outs. I have also noticed a fuller, more appealing low end/bass output with the current outs. Funny, I thought ss would provide more bass.

OK, so now I'm a believer. Amps can really sound different. I now need to figure out if I only hear a difference between distinct designs like tube vs ss, or if I can really hear a pronounced difference between various ss amps. I have not had the Nuforce amps back in, so I need to do that one last time. Also, still not sure the Capri makes a big difference. It may make some difference, but much less than these different amp outputs.