What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire


Preface: this is regarding 2 channel analogue SQ.
OK. I know it's very early in the comparison process, and I've "only" critically listened for 2-3 hours. But whereas listening to speakers has shown clear differences (to a point), and the move up the B&W ladder from 9NTs to N803s was SIGNIFICANT, I'm at a loss on the amp/preamp. The jump from my old $4k Pioneer flagship HT rcvr to the Sunfire TGA5200 was very significant. Less significant but noticeable was the jump from the Pio as preamp to the Sunfire TGP5 as pre. I then read a lot about how a good 2 channel pre would crush an HT pre/pro. So I got the Jeff Rowland Capri. Have listened for quite some time and struggled mightily to justify the Capri, but I just don't hear ANY major improvement. Maybe some VERY subtle things, but I can't even be sure of that. I also read that a good 2 channel amp would crush a multi-channel amp. So I just picked up the Nuforce ref 9SEv2, and I've gone back and forth with the TGA5200, unscientifically, but again, I don't hear any major difference, whether through the Capri or the Sunfire TGP5. Am I just missing "golden ears" and reached the audio equivalent of the Peter Principal" (rising to my level of incompetence)? Is the Sunfire stuff just that good? Is the old claim that all good amps/preamps should sound similar true? It just strikes me as odd that so many people on these audio boards hear huge differences and I don't. What's wrong?
jeffkad
 For anyone who still cares, here's an update with some very interesting news: I heard a difference between amps!

Actually, it was the same amp, my Sunfire.  As a previous poster reminded me, the Sunfire offers two different outputs: voltage, which is like typical ss amp, and current, which is supposed to mirror tube amp.  I had never played with current output, assuming I would much prefer the clarity and dynamics of the voltage/ss sound.  

Well, I finally tried it and wow, it was not a subtle difference!  It became very apparent on a Bocelli CD that I preferred the tube-like sound, and my 11 yr old son noticed instantly as well, also preferring the current output. I'm really hearing a significant difference here between the two outputs:

With the voltage outs that are typical SS, the music is in your face, the soundstage is at a single plane, all notes at same level, no depth, and (if I'm using the correct terminology) the "leading edge" or "attack" of notes are quite pronounced, overshadowing the balance of the note (ie, cymbals, rim shots, pluck of guitar string or piano key strike). Sometimes this is quite startling, sometimes in a good "wow, what impact/clarity" way, sometimes in a bad "turn down the volume" way. Sound is quite good for acoustic and small ensemble stuff, but the faster, bigger, brighter and/or more complicated the music, the worse it sounds, making me want to turn it down more often than not.

With the current outs that supposedly tube-like in character, it's almost exactly the opposite, and on the whole, significantly better, although there are those moments when I do miss the wow moments. Handclaps are more natural, everything much more listenable. The most remarkable difference: the notes and the soundstage has depth. The best way I can describe the soundstage is like you took a picture/painting where all the images were on a single upright plane and laid it down flat and then the images stood up like in a pop-up display, staggered in depth. The notes, while lacking in the initial impact, have a more even "attack/decay", allowing more depth and detail, and allowing more clarity and distinction between instruments and also vocals. This induces me to increase the volume as opposed to decreasing the volume with the voltage/ss outs. I have also noticed a fuller, more appealing low end/bass output with the current outs. Funny, I thought ss would provide more bass.

OK, so now I'm a believer. Amps can really sound different. I now need to figure out if I only hear a difference between distinct designs like tube vs ss, or if I can really hear a pronounced difference between various ss amps. I have not had the Nuforce amps back in, so I need to do that one last time. Also, still not sure the Capri makes a big difference. It may make some difference, but much less than these different amp outputs.
Jeff -- You'll be interested in the following excellent paper, written by Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere (who as you may know is a frequent contributor here at Audiogon). He characterizes the two kinds of outputs you are describing as based on what he calls the "voltage-paradigm" and the "power paradigm."

It comes across in his paper that which will sound best is dependent on which paradigm the particular speaker was designed for (which in turn may have been either a consciously-made choice by the designer, or an unintentional choice that is implicit in other aspects of the design).

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html

Regards,
-- Al
Thanks Al. Interesting (though a bit overly technical for a non-techie like me, lol). Couple of observations: clearly I like the power/current paradigm better on my B&Ws, but I doubt these speakers were designed with p/c paradigm in mind. Also, I think that Bob Carver and this Sunfire design proves again that you can design a ss amp to resemble tube amps.

As I don't have a true tube amp to compare, is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and bloom, but also wants ss bass impact and low heat/low maintenance? What ss amps possess these qualities? Based on Karsten's article and my ears, it seems McIntosh amps fit this profile: 1)they fit Karsten's power/current paradigm profile of having stable output regardless of impedance, and 2)everytime I've heard them I've felt the same way I do now with the Sunfire.
What other amps?
As I don't have a true tube amp to compare, is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and bloom, but also wants ss bass impact and low heat/low maintenance? What ss amps possess these qualities?

Tvad, what sayest thou?

-- Al :)
Jeff - You have wasted enough time on Rowland and Nuforce. Get rid of that stuff before the word gets out about Sunfire. Once that happens, the separates won't be worth a plugged nickel. However, gambler that I am, I'll take them off your hands for an even $1000, if you pay the freight to 81521.
Do you have the boxes?