2. amps-preamps
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What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire

Preface: this is regarding 2 channel analogue SQ.
OK. I know it's very early in the comparison process, and I've "only" critically listened for 2-3 hours. But whereas listening to speakers has shown clear differences (to a point), and the move up the B&W ladder from 9NTs to N803s was SIGNIFICANT, I'm at a loss on the amp/preamp. The jump from my old $4k Pioneer flagship HT rcvr to the Sunfire TGA5200 was very significant. Less significant but noticeable was the jump from the Pio as preamp to the Sunfire TGP5 as pre. I then read a lot about how a good 2 channel pre would crush an HT pre/pro. So I got the Jeff Rowland Capri. Have listened for quite some time and struggled mightily to justify the Capri, but I just don't hear ANY major improvement. Maybe some VERY subtle things, but I can't even be sure of that. I also read that a good 2 channel amp would crush a multi-channel amp. So I just picked up the Nuforce ref 9SEv2, and I've gone back and forth with the TGA5200, unscientifically, but again, I don't hear any major difference, whether through the Capri or the Sunfire TGP5. Am I just missing "golden ears" and reached the audio equivalent of the Peter Principal" (rising to my level of incompetence)? Is the Sunfire stuff just that good? Is the old claim that all good amps/preamps should sound similar true? It just strikes me as odd that so many people on these audio boards hear huge differences and I don't. What's wrong?
jeffkad
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almarg
8,673 posts
 
Jeff -- You'll be interested in the following excellent paper, written by Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere (who as you may know is a frequent contributor here at Audiogon). He characterizes the two kinds of outputs you are describing as based on what he calls the "voltage-paradigm" and the "power paradigm."

It comes across in his paper that which will sound best is dependent on which paradigm the particular speaker was designed for (which in turn may have been either a consciously-made choice by the designer, or an unintentional choice that is implicit in other aspects of the design).

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html

Regards,
-- Al
jeffkad OP
195 posts
 
Thanks Al. Interesting (though a bit overly technical for a non-techie like me, lol). Couple of observations: clearly I like the power/current paradigm better on my B&Ws, but I doubt these speakers were designed with p/c paradigm in mind. Also, I think that Bob Carver and this Sunfire design proves again that you can design a ss amp to resemble tube amps.

As I don't have a true tube amp to compare, is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and bloom, but also wants ss bass impact and low heat/low maintenance? What ss amps possess these qualities? Based on Karsten's article and my ears, it seems McIntosh amps fit this profile: 1)they fit Karsten's power/current paradigm profile of having stable output regardless of impedance, and 2)everytime I've heard them I've felt the same way I do now with the Sunfire.
What other amps?
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almarg
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As I don't have a true tube amp to compare, is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and bloom, but also wants ss bass impact and low heat/low maintenance? What ss amps possess these qualities?

Tvad, what sayest thou?

-- Al :)
macrojack
1,292 posts
 
Jeff - You have wasted enough time on Rowland and Nuforce. Get rid of that stuff before the word gets out about Sunfire. Once that happens, the separates won't be worth a plugged nickel. However, gambler that I am, I'll take them off your hands for an even $1000, if you pay the freight to 81521.
Do you have the boxes?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
05-20-09: Jeffkad
...is it possible that a tube-like ss amp offers the best combination/compromise
for someone like me who wants that tube-like liquidity and
bloom...

Define liquidity and bloom, and explain what they mean to you.

The Pass amps I own (XA-.5 series) have a grain-free clarity that's reminiscent
of tube amps I have owned (VAC and Atma-Sphere). When I auditioned the
NuForce Ref9V2 SE, I thought they also possessed a similar quality.

If by bloom you mean emphasized mids, or a 3D presentation that projects the
mids into the room, then I have not heard a solid state amp that qualifies.
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