high power tube amps vs ss

Csontos I would venture that the Atma-sphere amps, which I have heard in several unfamiliar systems over the years and in my experience the Berning zh series amps are as fast and transparent as any ss amps I am familiar with. Check out Berning's website for the numerous reviews of these amps to get an idea of their performance characteristics.

I have owned and been listening to the Berning zh270 for 11 years and the comments you have made above regarding tube amps in general are true in many instances but certainly not all. This amplifier rivals any ss amp I've listened to with reference to transient attack, pitch definition and bass control.

05-20-13: Csontos
I would venture to guess that Al, but especially Ralph believe it's not possible to arrive at life-like sound without tubes given some of their prior posts. To that end I would like very much for either/both to cite some tube amps that are as fast as any ss amps they've heard so far. Imo, you can't get there without serious speed in an amp.

Hi Peter,

No, I for one would certainly not make any such claim. In part because my listening experience with solid state amps during the past decade or two has been minimal. Prior experience led me in the direction of tubes, with which I've been very happy, and in recent times I've simply had no interest in high end solid state. And my speaker preferences have always tended to be in the direction of those having impedance characteristics that are benign and tube-friendly.

For examples of tube amps that are "fast," for starters consider Ralph's OTL amps. Although I haven't had the pleasure of hearing any of them, by all accounts I've ever seen they have that characteristic in spades.

And among tube amps having transformer coupled outputs, my VAC Renaissance 70/70 Mk III certainly doesn't disappoint. While I realize that you "don't care about published specs," I'll mention that they are rated as being down only 0.5 db at 90 kHz on a small signal basis, and at 58 kHz at full power. At -3 db those ratings are 103 kHz and 85 kHz, respectively. Not very different than the very highly regarded Pass XA.5 series solid state amps, which are rated to 100 kHz (with no specification of power level or how many db down that is based on).

Yes, I know, a few solid state amps, such as those made by Spectral, go out to 1 or 2 MHz or more, but whether or not that is overkill, and whether or not it may even be sonically counter-productive, are certainly debatable.

As a point of reference, I'll add that I frequently compare listening results between my amp + speakers and my Stax electrostatic headphones + Stax solid state headphone amp. I doubt that anyone would ever accuse the Stax components of being "slow," yet I am not disappointed with the "speed" of the amp + speaker combination.

Tubegroover, thank you most kindly for your expression of appreciation.

Best regards,
-- Al

I understand that speed and other sonic parameters are subjective and individually just personal perceptions. I've found good tube power amplifiers to present a wonderful realistic sense of timimg, pace and musical flow.The presentation is very fluid with well preserved continuity. The two Spectral based systems I heard (if they're considered typical of a"fast" SS amplifier) were not even close as far as retaining the believable and natural musical flow and timing.The sound was mechanical and artificial in character But again, this is just my own observation.
Regards,

Csontos, I think that I might understand where some of the tube skepticism among the solid state crowd comes from. Quite often, tubes are used in applications that are less than ideal. I hear them all the time. That’s not to say that a mistake was made. A person has the right to consider only the elements of music that are important to him, and choose a tube amplifier/speaker combination accordingly. But while this person is satisfied with his tube application, others of us might listen to his system and hear musical compromises that we wouldn’t make for ourselves. What Atmasphere, Almarg and others are trying to tell you, is that many of the shortcomings that you perceive to be inherent to tubes, are more likely to be common application flaws.

Dammit! Al, I would love to spend an evening with you listening and drinking. Here's my question Al. I have never tried tube amps and I am fearful that I would miss some SLAM and Impact of the presentation. Does your system belt it out pretty loud and non fatiguing? OR does it seem to be very detailed and airy, but when you turn it up loud, can you listen for long periods? (I guess loud would be above the 35w range)I would love to hear some good tube amps with a different speaker that works well with tubes. There are no stores I can visit nearby. My Dynaudio Contour 3.0s are really great.But they are 86-87db and require a lot of power to open up. My MC352 can drive them over 350w easily and the speakers are rated at 200w. I was thinking of switching to a pair of 70w monoblock tube amps. but I really dont think my dynaudios would like that. of course I have nothing to support this really.what do you think AL. Am I missing out on goosebump city,or is my hybrid system the best I can hope for with these speakers.