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progress?

I know this subject has been visited and revisited. I'd like to approach it from a slightly different perspective. This is regarding the infamous Telarc 1812 overture with the digital cannons. In 1979, I purchased the recording and played it entirely satisfactorily with my Technics SLD2 or Sony PSX7 and Shure cartridges: M95e, V15III, etc. My AudioTechnica 12XE and 12 SA played it as well ,also MicroAcoustics, Acutex, and ADC cartridges without problems. Skip to 1984 or so; with the CD age, you could buy at thrift shops many by then older turntables: Onkyo, Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Technics, Yamaha, etc. Well, those sometimes $10 or less turntables could also play the cannons without problems with the aforemention cart's without bouncing out of the groove. Ortofons or Stantons, even the 681EEE, could not do so unless you brought in a turntable with a servotracer arm [JVC, Denon, Sony, etc.] Keep in mind the total cost at thrift stores would be less than $50, whereas brand new equipment might have run as much as $200. OK; Look at today; I have had turntables from VPI, Project, Music Hall, Rega (3) priced from $1000 to $3000 which look silly when trying to play the 1812 Telarc cannons! This is progress?, I would like some input, and I'm fully aware of phono cartrige compliance assues,and tonearm weight, ec..
boofer
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Mapman: Your posts are right as a theory, unfortunatelly in audio for some " unknow " reasons not always is acomplished.

This is an example and I already experienced several other that gone against theory:

In 1984 Audio magazyne made the review of one of the greatest LOMC ever, the Ortofon MC2000 ( that I own. ). This cartridge weight is 11grs and its compliance is 20cu.

The reviewer was the regarded B.V. Pisha whom mounted the cartridge in the technics EPA 250 through the SP-10MK2 TT.

The measured compliance was 30cu and the resonance frequency was 5.0 hz. Well trhough measures of the cartridge traking ability ( to many numbers to shows here ) Pisha writed: " this is the best tracability I have ever measured at low frequency.

The MC2000 tracks cleanly: even the level 6 on the Shure Era V. He continue: " as I had expected, the MC2000 reproduced very the very high-velocity cannon shots on the Telarc 1812 with no apparent difficulty ".

How that could happen?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
tonywinsc
583 posts
 
Not surprising that the cartridge could track low freq better with a system natural at 5Hz; because that is further away from the 20Hz+ musical frequencies. It could be ideal if not for the other parameters that must be addressed, ie. warps in records, runout, external vibrations such as foot falls and rumble. The author of that article looked only at one parameter. I also think that stylus design/shape is a factor too for both low and high frequency tracking. Some stylus shapes definately work better than others.
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Tonywinsc: Well, the tonearm/cartridge resonance was that 5hz value that's way out of the " ideal " range: 8hz to 12 hz.

I assume you have that review and is very interesting. The subject here for what Mapman posted ( he is right. ) is that all the cartridge/tonearm specs and measurements goes ( in theory ) against what he stated but in the real life the cartridge performs great. I own this Ortofon MC2000 and I mounted in several tonearms and in each one performs almost the same.

I own several very high compliance cartridges that I mounted in heavy mass tonearms and performs very well.

+++++ " I also think that stylus design/shape is a factor too for both low and high frequency tracking. Some stylus shapes definately work better than others. " +++++

this is absolutely true. I experienced about and I remember one of my latest test with the AT Precept 440 MM cartridge: things are that this cartridge ( over the time. ) was marketed with different stylus shape: Shibata, eliptical and ML ( line contact type. ).

All stylus/cantilever/suspension " mechanism " are the same but the stylus shape. Well, only the ML sample traked cleanly all the 1812 cannon shots, the other two failed and I tested in three different tonearms.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
tonywinsc
583 posts
 
"I own several very high compliance cartridges that I mounted in heavy mass tonearms and performs very well."

Hi Raul, I believe that is possible if your turntable is very well isolated, has low rumble and has a way to keep the record perfectly flat. The danger is if the record has any warp then it is possible to drive the cantilever suspension to its hard stops. At that point, there could be risk of damage to the cartridge and/or record groove. The high compliance cartridge sees the high mass tonearm as an immovable object. So even a record with high runnout, ie. eccentric hole might stress the high compliance suspension in the lateral direction. The grooves are moving back and forth but the tonearm stays steady and the high compliance suspension must absorb all of the motion.
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Tonywinsc: Yes we have to take in count that all LPs comes with eccentric hole and warps , ideally is better to stay in the " safe " resonance frequency range: 8hz to 12 hz.

I only want to show that a good tracker tracks under almost any condition.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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