Hi guys I'm looking to move my speakers to the long wall of my room, the 14 foot one. In order to do this I'm going to need to acquire a 20 foot pair of speaker cables. I don't (can't) put my amp in the middle.
Based on my research it seems as long as the cable is well made, it shouldn't matter, at least 20 feet or under? I am worried that my sonics will suffer...
A number of members here have reported good results using speaker cables in the area of 20 to 25 feet. Also, generally speaking, the higher the impedance of the speaker the less sensitive it will be to speaker cable effects. I found an impedance curve for the JBL speakers you indicated you will be getting, which shows that their impedance doesn't go below 5.5 ohms at any frequency, and is significantly higher than that at most frequencies. So that seems encouraging.
No big deal. Save your money for real improvements with your components and get some ordinary speaker wire. If you want to go crazy then get 12 gauge wire. The only thing you should avoid is 18 gauge lamp cord or thinner wire. Stranded cables are best because solid cables can be stiff and can cause contact issues and plug or connector strain.
I may wind up putting my electronics in the middle of my room, in that case I'd need a 12 foot long power cord as my mains (the only one in my room) is off to the side. Thoughts?
I would respectfully disagree with an earlier comment in this thread by a member who appears to have subsequently deleted his post. In addition to the actual experiences with long speaker cables that have been reported by other members, such as Stereo5 above, I’m pretty certain that the Magico speakers used by the author of that deleted post have much lower impedances than the JBLs you will be getting. Most Magico speakers have nominal impedances of 4 ohms, and are closer to 3 ohms at many frequencies. That will significantly increase their sensitivity to cable effects compared to the impedance characteristics of the JBLs.
Regarding power cords, I have used two 13 foot lengths of 12 gauge Signal Cable Magic Power Digital Reference cords to power the two channels of a dual mono 70 watt class A tube amp, with fine results, even though that cord is nominally intended for use with digital components. I chose that model because I wanted the double shielding it provides, in part because the cords are routed near my phono stage.
The 215 watt class AB Kinki Studio solid state amplifier you are getting is a very different animal, of course, but I would still expect that cord to be a reasonable choice. Even if your amp were to be delivering full power on both channels at times, which is very unlikely considering the 94 db sensitivity of the speakers and your relatively small room size, the combined voltage drop of the two current-carrying conductors of a 12 gauge 12 foot power cord would be only around 1/4 of a volt. Probably less than the voltage of the incoming AC fluctuates between different times of the day and night.
P.S: Speaker cable capacitance, that was mentioned in the post that was subsequently deleted, will not affect the speakers. Since it presents itself in parallel with the speakers if it affects anything it would be the amplifier. And in any event the 10 gauge Belden cable you indicated you would be ordering from BlueJeans has low capacitance (26 pf/foot). Many speaker cables have vastly higher capacitances.
It is the cable’s inductance and resistance that are presented in series with a speaker, and can sometimes affect the sonics of the speaker. But as I mentioned those effects are likely to be negligible for a 20 foot length in the case of a speaker having the impedance characteristics of your forthcoming JBLs.
I'm currently running 24 feet of 10 gage cables from my Bryston 4BSST2 to a pair of Thiel 2.7s. No Problems!
I got the speaker cables from Blue Jeans, along with some audio interconnect cables, and a 26 foot XLR to run from a PX05 passive crossover to my SS2.2 subwoofer.
More than satisfied with Blue Jeans.
Disclaimer: I'd never heard of Blue Jeans Cable until I bought these on a very strong recommendation from a friend.
Is there any way to move the amp closer to the speakers? I would use longer interconnects between preamp and amp than use long speaker cables. And, balanced interconnects over RCA. B
The type and gauge of the wire is very important especially longer runs I would think at least a 12awg size wire if not bigger quality too has a lot to say about the Final product. myself use the solid High purity foil Speakrrcables from Verastarr and they can handle longer runs with no issues.
Thoughts for 12 foot power cord and ’middle of room’? I use several four meter power cords. I have my stereo equipment stack near me. The amp near the speakers. (MY speakers (Magnepan 20.7 are at narrow end of room. MY listening chair is really in middle of room, equipment rack back and to left, along left wall between me and speakers is the Plasma TV and its stand with ’extra’ CD changers and DVD stuff. (you might try the amp ’halfway’ to the speakers?) Along the wall? And my power? from the kitchen 20 ampere outlet, with a pair of 32 ft and 40 ft long 9 gauge AC extensions to Duplex boxes, one set near the amp, one set near the power conditioners.MY equipment rack is actually out, away from the wall,) so I can get behind it easily, close enough I can reach the physical volume knob from my listening position.Directly behind it is my PS Audio P-600 regenerator. And back to the side, behind it and the main rack, my two TTs(I cannot begin to say what a nice convenience the rack away from the wall is. Years of experience I LOVE not having to struggle to get at the wires!)MY other power conditioner is away, past the TV stand (against the wall). ((That could be where you put the amp)) Used to use that conditioner for the amp too. (no longer) So each way was four meters. Now I could. maybe, move it closer.Anyway, I have used a lot of four meter powercords. The nice thing is the ’extra’ meters usually do not cost near as much as the first, for plenty of brands of power cords. Having a longer IC to the amp, and half as long speaker cables.. Would be good too.I opt for long XLR to amp, and short speaker cables. added: PS my interconnects are mostly Kimber KS1016 (RCA) and KS1116 (XLR) with a few Cardas Parsec
Just checked the Siltone web page for those Morpheus interconnects. The wires apparently are a mix of various precious metals including gold, silver and copper. Cost per single interconnect: .5 meter $675.00 1 meter $785.00 1.5 meter $895.00 2.0 meter $1005.00
I'll stick with Blue Jeans Cable and not be quite so satisfied with what I might discern as the difference. BTW: The Belden 1694A cables are RG-6.
What impedance speakers, what sensitivity and what amplifier?
Generally, use no less than 14 gauge wire and you will be fine. Have you seen the low profile/super flat cable? Great for running under rugs and carpets.
Here are the important factors in choosing a speaker (or any electrical cable):
1) The dc ohmic IN PHASE resistance. This causes voltage drop & heat. It negatively affects the amplifier output impedance, hence the slew rate of the output. Solution: Use a THICKER cable or one with VERY GOOD QUALITY copper and/or silver. Silver is the BEST but it expensive and oxidizes very quickly so connections must be very well made.
2) The skin effect. This is the tendency of HIGH FREQUENCY ac current to travel on the outer extremities of a wire, which may therefore experience elevated resistance at hi frequencies. Solution: Use a cable which is covered in silver towards the outside (this is really not very practical or cheap and does it even exist).
3) The cable is SOOO LONG that your ear almost starts detecting the electrical signal delay reaching from the amp to your speaker. Electricity travels approximately 1 meter in 3 nanoseconds. By this calculation, a 100 mile speaker cable will delay the sound by about 5 microseconds. Noone can hear this so pretty much you can ignore this effect. However this also exasperates bullet item number 1.
4) Capacitance & inductance of the wire. Now these are probably the most important factors that negatively affect the sound quality. Mostly, these will increase with length but ingenious geometries may minimize these. So, when u pick a cable look at its inductance & capacitance per meter. The lower they are the better the cable is for audio purposes.
If you change your mind about gear placement and want to put it in the middle thus needing a longer power cord contact Patrick at Cullen Cable and he will make one to whatever length you need.
I am far from being an expert so I pick up on odd comments. Did I hear correctly that in theory a longer power cable is better than a shorter one? It was explained to me at the time but I didn't retain the reasons
I used a 20ft pair of Mogami 2477 Blue Neglex OFC coaxial with my KLH Nines for 23 years! Excellent sound, never felt the need or urge to change! The cost: $1 a foot (dealer accommodation)!
tatyana69. That very question was asked over on Audio Asylum.. Sadly no one answered. I used to be in the ’long is better camp’... mainly because I was using long 3 or 4 meter PC.. LOL Now I am in the buying shorter is better since I have been buying shorter PC cords 1 meter, 2 meter. The whims of fate...So currently I have a mix of long AND short power cords, same makers. Difference? none I can hear. Big differences in current vs older models of Pangea in particular. The ’original’ AC9... Throw them away (they just sound muffled) Ditto original AC14. The original AC9SE. AC14SE are better, and worth keeping for odd stuff. In fact they are great to help ameliorate digital grunge affecting amps and preamps.The latest Pangea Signature are pretty good PC.I have also made DH Labs AC wire ($8 ft stuff) with Furutech Rhodium '28' series plugs and have two of those in the system. One 2m the other 4m.
Of course capacitance will affect the sound. Capacitance impedance gets less with increasing frequency or capacitance = 1/jwC
This means the higher the frequencies, the more it will feel like you are SHORTING the cables. Although in most cases this may be negligible, it may have the effect of losing high frequencies the longer the cable.
The shorter, the better. however it is up to your gear: amp. and speakers. Give me the bran and model and I'll let you know what guage you need for 20 feet. Keep in mind that speaker's cables resistance double, as it goes (red) and retunrs (black). So your 20' is actually counts as a 40' cable!
If you perform some quantitative calculations regarding speaker cable capacitance, such as I describe below, I think you will conclude that what I said is correct.
The high frequency rolloff you refer to results from the low pass filter formed by the combination of the capacitance of the cable and the output impedance of whatever is driving the cable. The bandwidth of that filter, defined as the frequency at which 3 db of rolloff has occurred, is:
3 db bandwidth = 1/(2 x pi x R x C)
If R is specified in ohms and C in farads, the calculated frequency will be in Hz. Since the output impedance of a power amplifier is very small, the resulting rolloff will occur at a frequency that is so high as to be totally insignificant in the case of an analog audio signal, under any reasonable circumstances.
For example, a 20 foot length of the cable the OP is considering has a total capacitance of 520 pf. The Kinki-Studio amp the OP is obtaining has a specified damping factor of 2000, so its output impedance is approximately 8/2000 = 0.004 ohms. But let’s assume a MUCH worse situation than that, say 2000 pf and 1 ohm. Even in that case , which is vastly more extreme than the OP’s, the 3 db bandwidth calculates to 79.6 MHz. In other words, it is high enough to be totally irrelevant to analog audio signals.
On the other hand, as I had mentioned, the inductance and resistance of a speaker cable might have some significance in certain situations, especially if the impedance of the speaker is very low at some frequencies.
In contrast, in the case of a line-level analog interconnect the fact that the cable may be driven in some cases via output impedances of hundreds or even thousands of ohms can sometimes result in the effect you referred to being significant. While in that case inductance and resistance are unlikely to be significant. The impedances presented by inductance ("inductive reactance") and resistance are presented in series with the input impedance of the destination component, and that input impedance is almost invariably vastly higher than the resistance and the inductive reactance of a line-level interconnect at relevant frequencies, even if the cable is particularly long.
It is also true, as I mentioned, that if a speaker cable has extremely high capacitance it can adversely affect the performance of the amplifier, depending in part on the gain, feedback, and bandwidth of the amp. Effects such as overshoot, ringing, oscillations, and on rare occasions even damage have been known to occur when some amps are used in conjunction with speaker cables having ultra-high capacitance.
I have Blue Jean Cables (10 ga white) own a similar set up, except I ran mine in-wall one run is 45 feet long, one run is 22 feet long. I cannot move my amp to the middle due to my fireplace or anywhere other than it's current location, which has caused this install...They sound good with eh BJC cable but with the cable length there are issues.
I have Bryston Mini-T speakers and when connected directly to the amp (Anthem PVA-7) they sound incredible using a set of 15 foot Audioquest Rocket 88 cables. The clarity, they are sharp, crisp reproduction, the soundstage is incredible. However, with the Rocket88 cables the speaker placement is terrible, no stereo separation and right channel is much stronger due to having to relocate the left speaker to allow the cable to reach the back of the amp. When I use the BJC 10 ga wire, there is a NOTICEABLE degradation in audio quality. I don't have all the audiophile verbs to describe the difference, but there are noticeable differences for the worse using this long of runs of speaker wire. If you never upgrade your speaker cables they will sound fine, but if you venture into higher grade cables you will notice the difference and want to find a way to replace the BJC cables... I'm trying to find a way to buy a set of 22 foot long Rocket 88 cables, but without selling one of my kidneys, I just don't have $2,000 laying around for a set of speaker wires.
14 gage copper wire is good for 15 amps. Sound will not change from one wire to another. Only be concerned with voltage drop from using too small of wire when drawing current through it.
We think alike! I also have a long 25 ft run of blue jeans 10awg speaker cable to my Thiel 2.7 speakers. Sounds fantastic. I hear different systems all the time with super expensive cables and don’t find anything missing from the sound I’m getting.
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