Jazz for aficionados

Pryso, we are all having the same problem.

That album is totally new to me, but as good as it sounds, I have so much of Getz doing the same thing that I would not be able to justify buying that album; they sound too much alike doing the Bosa Nova  but I'm glad you made me aware of it.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KpIV57PSeo

I've been searching for new music other than Brazilian, but what I've found pales in comparison, consequently we might be awhile in this part of the world.

This is a mellow groove;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4miRO1NMaP4


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgS16Ipnr2E


Sometime ago, I asked a professional musician who was a friend of mine, who his current favorite musician was, and he replied Baden Powell. I didn't even know who Baden Powell was at that time; has since been well corrected.

 
According to Wikipedia;

The berimbau (Portuguese pronunciation: [beɾĩˈbaw]) is a single-string percussion instrument, a musical bow, from Brazil. Originally from Africa where it receives different names, the berimbau was eventually incorporated into the practice of the Afro-Brazilian martial art capoeira, the berimbau (the soul of capoeira) leads the capoeiristas movement in the roda—the faster the berimbau is playing the faster the capoeirista moves in the game. The instrument is known for being the subject matter of a popular song by Brazilian guitarist Baden Powell, with lyrics by Vinicius de Moraes. The instrument is also a part of Candomblé-de-caboclo tradition.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkZPiZ59lME


While I'm truly fascinated by the rhythms and dance, I have no interest in the religion other than what part of Africa it came from. Each one of these religions from Africa has it's own peculiar rhythms. How they have survived intact over hundreds of years under unique circumstances is a mystery.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ1lGjziHyk

Rok, I have "Good News" by Sweet Honey In The Rock, and I like it; looking to add more.

Alex, I only know of Charley Rouse with Monk, but I really liked those Bossa Nova clips.

All those records were new to me, and made for easy listening; especially Zoot Sims.

It seems you had my kind of holiday when I was healthy enough to enjoy things like that. May you be able to swim and drive your bicycle forever.


Happy New Year!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

Frogman, it's only in isolated pockets of the US that anything African survived; everything African is new in the US. The "Blues" as some people claim didn't come from Africa; that came from picking cotton in the hot sun without pay; that would give anybody "The Blues".

As we know, a lot was retained in Brazil, Cuba, and the Caribbean.

Milton is well represented in my collection, and your contributions (which I enjoyed) reminded me that I'll have to put him on my playlist.

Debate is good, "misunderstanding" is bad.

"Da Blues" is so vague and abstract it doesn't have any specific meaning. I was referring to the vocal "Delta Blues".

The blues clearly has its roots in Africa and understanding this will open the door to better understanding evolution in jazz. I encourage all to do a simple internet search on the subject; fascinating stuff. "That statement is in debate".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Py37G9qsfY

If Albert King told me he got his inspiration from Africa, this argument would be settled. Of course Albert is dead, and can not speak, but if he could, he would give me that big laugh of his at the question.

Let's consider Rok, our Delta Blues expert and accept his answer to settle the debate.

"I don’t think it’s any more of a mystery why this has survived than why any religion, including my RC, has held on to its religious music traditions over thousands of years."

That was your statement in response to; "How they have survived intact over hundreds of years under unique circumstances is a mystery."

Frogman, did your ancestors endure a trek halfway across the continent of Africa, shackled together? Were your ancestors stored in "Barracoons" before they were loaded on ships that would take them to the "Americas", where they would be sold as slaves. They remained slaves for over 300 years. How does this compare with your history?

You stated that it's no more of a mystery than the fact your traditions survived. Do you want to reconsider that statement?

Pryso, this probably concerns you the most; I was listening to a CD of "Trane" and Johnny Hartman, and noticed how well recorded it was, so much so that it sounded like an LP.

Although I've had this CD a long time, I just noticed how good the sonics are; can't wait to get the LP.

I have the LP "Don't Go To Strangers" by Etta Jones, and it sounds as good now as it did in the 60's. Audiophiles agree that it's one of the best recorded records, meaning the original record, nothing special. It's a record you don't have to pay an arm and a leg for to get something special.

My original records sound as good, if not better than the one's I paid high prices for. My observation for the day.

"I remember a critic saying Coltrane sounded like a big man in a small box, when he played with Miles."

Acman, that's quite a quote, and it fits so well; Coltrane really expanded after he left Miles.

The discussion Frogman and me are having pertains to about 2 minutes of Trane's musical life, and it's just something "Aficionados" do to past the time.


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, I've been listening to jazz for my entire life, and I'm an old man; you shouldn't expect something "new" that grabs you, will grab me.

I've heard the best jazz musicians from the 50's up until it changed and became more abstract in recent years. The musicians in my collection are so very incredible, and I even heard one of my favorite musicians close up and personal.

Grant Green, before he went to Blue Note and became professional, would come into his favorite club, turn off the jukebox, and start playing for himself; not for any audience.

Of course nobody said anything, we all just listened; he knew everybody and we all knew Grant, including the nightclub owner. That was an experience I'll never forget; to be only maybe six feet away from that guitar and hear those fantastic sounds resonate in your ear was incredible.

He would leave just like he came, quietly; he didn't talk too much.

Of course this would occur on a slow night. He played officially at this same club on weekends.


Enjoy the music.

BTW Ghosthouse, Frogman, and Rok have also inquired why I thought something was just ok that they considered special; maybe I'm too honest.   But when they asked that question, the jazz was very good, it just sounded "stereotypical" to me, that's because a new jazz musician will imitate someone special before he finds his own voice, and I've heard what they displayed  by another musician.

The only musician who never imitated anyone was Miles, he came on with a totally new thing.

Frogman, I'm curious to know what you think of that clip with Jackie McClean.  In a way it's "stereotypical"  but at the same time it has something special that I can't identify, but since you're a sax man, I'm sure you can identify it.


Enjoy the music.

Thanks for your kind words Ghosthouse.

Charlie Haden and Jim Hall are two of the highest rated jazz musicians I can think of. I just read where they got 5 stars on performance, and 5 stars on sonics; that's a rarity.

I've just cued this album in and I'm really enjoying it. Whether or not you give it a five star rating on both sonics and performance is your call.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFzhNdQU8qU


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, there's no doubt about the sonics. This music is best listened to in a dark room with a blank mind from beginning to end. Although I'm listening to it, I haven't gotten into it yet.

Just like a tuner, your mind has to be on the right frequency in order to receive the music. That applause is disturbing, I don't know why they left it in. Every time I get in a good listening mode, that applause breaks it up.

Since I can't handle that applause, I have to let this one go. I could get the album and record it without the applause, that would work for me.


Enjoy the music

" It certainly applies to the music at the link here."

You certainly got that right; good sonics and perfect vinyl always helps the listening experience. You're getting warm, but this is even better, and it includes some of the same people.

Egberto Gismonti - Sol do Meio Dia; this album touches on African, European, plus indigenous Brazilian music. It even includes African rhythms that can no longer be found in Africa.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUy7UpLTKEQ


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, as I stated, our discussion about Trane relates to 2 minutes of his total musical life, and was just conversation to pass the time.

I use the word "Stereotypical" to mean that I've heard it a lot before; "Bird" and Coltrane for sure; that aspect of Jackie is what I was referring to.

Since I never could dance, I overlook that; as a matter of fact, I prefer music that you can not dance to.


 
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6GkA54n_Q


Jackie Mac has many faces; that is the one I liked best.



Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, I asked a professional jazz musician I knew, who his favorite artist was, and he told me "Baden Powell" was the one he was listening to at that time.

"Knew" meaning he is no longer with us; "No", I'm not going to name him. It has been alluded that I like to throw around the names of professional jazz musicians who I talked to in a friendly manner, and I suppose that's true, but this time I'm not going to mention the name.

At that time, I didn't even know who "Baden Powell" was, I had never even heard the name; it's for sure he wasn't a "Blue Note" musician.

Now, I have this 2 CD set titled "Three Originals, Baden Powell", and you get your money's worth, and then some; it comes with a 12 page booklet.

I mention this because his music is in the same vein that you posted.

This link fills you in on Mr. Powell;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden_Powell_de_Aquino


Enjoy the music.

Frogman,  our conversation, meaning just between the two of us, is the kind of conversation "aficionado's" have that proves they are who they claim to be, but is not really important in relation to John Coltrane's merits as an artist.

When he went out into the "wild blue" before a live audience, ( he played "MY Favorite Things" for at least half an hour). After 20 minutes the whole audience was beginning to get a "?" mark look on their faces. Elvin Jones looked at McCoy Tyner, who signaled "just follow me". I don't mean he gave a hand signal, but a look of confidence, like he knew what he was going to do. Otherwise these professional musicians would have looked silly.

As it was, "Trane" was out in the "wild blue", and they were playing something different, but coherent. At our table, my date looked at me, and I looked at the professional musician, who was a drummer.

She asked, "Is Trane on something". "No, he's perfectly clean" was his reply. He gave a professional musician explanation for what was going on that nobody understood. Fortunately, Trane came out of the clouds and all was back normal like it never happened; he was jamming with McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones just like you see on the TV clips.


Enjoy the music.

I not only heard and saw those two minutes, but saw other people's reaction to those 2 minutes, and it was "?". Those two minutes were never explained, and I'm glad they were only 2 minutes. I can never relegate the same importance to those 2 minutes as you. BTW those same 2 minutes were repeated many times; whenever the urge hit.

While everybody reads whatever I post, at times they are primarily meant for one aficionado; some are trying to learn, while others already know. This is like having a discussion with those who are very advanced, and those who are just learning at the same time.

The artist I would pick in regard to seeing his advancement is "Charles Mingus"; he started out advanced. I remember buying an album simply because I liked the art work on the cover, and it turned out to be one of the best albums I ever purchased; it was "Mingus Ah Um"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingus_Ah_Um


Not only was the art work unusual, but so was the title, and I wont even mention the artist. This was in 1960 and it was only released in 59; that means I was definitely up to date. Other aficionados didn't quite know what to make of Mingus at that time. (I laugh when I read how so many thought so much of Mingus at that time) Many said WTF at that time, believe it or not.

This thing called "you tube" is the most fantastic thing for me in my life time. I'm still learning about Mingus; what's so fantastic is that I'm learning what I thought I already knew. I just ran into something new for me, "Mingus at The Cafe Bohemia". By the time I quit learning what I thought I already knew, it'll be time for that final act, and the curtain will come down.


Enjoy the music.

Acman, let's hope the curtain comes down before senility, and as that great philosopher Forest Gump once said, "That's all I'm gonna say about that".

Ghosthouse, I take listening to music very seriously; especially when someone has presented some music, it's almost like a gift.

First, I have to get in the right mode; that means shifting out of "Blue Note" jazz to an almost Latin guitar mode. This is a very unusual guitar that refuses to be "pigeonholed", and 3:43 minutes isn't long enough to get a grip on where he's coming from. I liked the heavy bass intro, but after that he took off in a different direction; it was kind of choppy.

I'll have to hear more of Carles Benavent's quartet to make a judgment.


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, I listened to Carles extensively, and came to the conclusion that his music was too choppy, it rarely flowed.

Acman is always speaking of making an effort to listen to a new artists music; that's good, but not too much of an effort; especially when there's so much music that's available, made just for you.

If the answer to the bottom line question "Would you buy it" comes up "No", then that's it, game over.


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, for music lovers like us, there's nothing better than "you tube".

I imagine you spent many years listening to equipment, and discerning the differences in wire; tube or solid state; getting our rigs together has been a long and arduous journey; now we can enjoy the music without thinking about the rig. How sweet it is!


Enjoy the music.

Acman, Right off the bat this music started talking to me, why? Let's break it down in an objective manner to answer the question.

This music was released on the Italian Soul Note label in 1987. The fact that Mal Waldron came along with my favorite jazz musicians is part of the answer.

Although I'm trying to find an objective answer to that question, music is totally "subjective" to me; in other words it's all about what I feel.

I'm sure Mal Waldron is in my collection but only as a sideman.

I could possibly buy this music, it's deep. Change that to probably buy this music; this is the first time I've heard it.


Enjoy the music.

Although the musicians are top flight, I think it's Mal Waldron making the thing happen; like on a Mingus record, it's the spirit of Mingus that drives the music.

Alex, I will acquire that music; Jackie Mac has many faces, and I liked this one a lot.

Ghosthouse, I liked the music submitted by Alex, which is an indication that the music you submitted wasn't that far off. That happens a lot with me in jazz; only in that instance I'll like a sideman, but when I get an album by the sideman, I could live without it; this is just the reverse.

Frogman, we are not saying anything different, in regard to the sidemen, but this is not face to face conversation where one can express different "nuances" in what they mean.


Enjoy the music.

This is what I mean by discovering old music that's new for me. I've never heard this fantastic tune by Abbey Lincoln; just out of curiosity, how many have heard this tune by Abbey before now?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7w8Wb5_aZA


Enjoy the music.

I'm still trying to find "new" new music, meaning current music that meets with our approval. Since we like "good" jazz, and collectively we seem to be of one mind, more or less, in regard to what is "good jazz".

While me and Ghosthouse agreed that "Charlie Hayden and Jim Hall" was good jazz with the best of sonics; it was recorded live, and I couldn't take the applause.

It seemed every time the music hit a high point, the audience would applaud. That broke my concentration and focus on the music too many times; good jazz or not, I had to pass.

Now I'm reading Kenny Wheeler, "Songs For Quintet". It got 5 stars for performance, and 5 stars for sonics. If it's on "you tube" I'll get back to you.

It seems Mr. wheeler has been around awhile, but I'm not familiar with him. Here are the goods on Mr. Wheeler.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Wheeler


Right now I'm listening to "Canter No. 1" from that album mentioned above. This album has that "ECM" label sound, if you can identify with that. "Comme Ci comme ca"; I could take it or leave it, but it still got a very high rating from "Stereophile". If sonics is your thing, it's a buy.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLnzze7084




Enjoy the music.

Alex, I have many "ECM" records, only 1 CD that I can think of; for some reason I never play any of them. So the question is "Why did I buy them in the first place?" There are many things in that same category; bright yellow double knit bell bottomed slacks, with 3 inch cuffs; Why did I buy them, the moths don't even like them.

Things of that nature are just another one of life's riddles. Azimuth - "The Tunnel" is interesting though it's on ECM and is typical of their music.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scJ_cSvgFBM


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, it's amazing; in order to appreciate Eric Dolphy, all we had to do was "listen". I liked that Eric Dolphy clip

Kenny Wheeler, forlorn and lost; like being in the middle of a dream that seems real, and you are in the middle of nowhere and don't know how you got there, or which way is home; then you wake up just before you lose your mind trying to figure things out. "Thank God that was just a dream".

I feel that bass; the tune comes to life after 5 minutes, and gets into a bag reminiscent of the 70's live music that I heard in clubs. I could possibly buy it, if I don't already have something similar. Top notch musicians, I recall all of them.


Enjoy the music.

I don't know what's going on, but we have had a very long string of music that I would give a thumbs up to; all of it very interesting, even if it was on the borderline for a buy, and none of it was "stereotypical"; that's music I've heard for 101 times.

I'm submitting some music by a female vocalist that "stereophile" has raved about forever; that's automatically a thumbs down, I don't care for her vocals, but this time she got one thumbs up from me, her name is Patricia Barber.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi3i-HqDNFI


Enjoy the music.

If this has been posted before, please tell me. If it has been posted before, and I don't remember; that's simply a sign that I'm getting younger.

Although Milt Jackson is the undisputed king of the jazz vibraphone, Bobby Hutcherson holds his own. The fact that he was born in 1941, while Milt Jackson was born in 1923 helps a lot. Bobby's style is more modern than Milt's, which means he sounds "different"; that means the two of them are not so closely compared; I'll show you what I mean.

The differences in the coast's they were born closest to, Milt; East Coast, and Bobby, West Coast; also attributed to a difference in styles and selection of music. When you hear the links I'm going to post, you'll hear how superb both musicians sound, and you may even want to challenge the fact as I have stated, that Milt Jackson is the undisputed king of the jazz vibraphone.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUPBJPR4XJA


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgUUe5czxc


This time, you get to be the judge.


Enjoy the music.


 

Frogman, I was hoping for more responses, and I didn't think you would be the first one. But as some wise philosopher stated "We got to play the cards that we're dealt".

Milt Jackson vs Bobby Hutcherson; although I opened up the debate for fun, I'll pass on that one for all the reasons you stated; however, Bird is the undisputed king; he would have been able to play anything Trane played with ease, and his trolley never jumped the tracks musically.

Since Harold Land composed the tune, however he played it was the way it was supposed to be played, and "A Night In Barcelona" is one of my favorite tunes that Bobby Hutcherson plays.

It's interesting that you should pick a tune with the style that Milt Jackson absolutely excels in, that tune "Effi" is Hard Bop, and however well Bobby Hutcherson plays it, Milt would run rings around him.

I didn't understand that "Pretty obvious" statement, where Milt, and Bobby were playing together.

Those last two clips are very nice; I've got to add both those artists to my collection.


Enjoy the music.

Ok Frogman; but first here's something with Bird and Milt, just to let you know that Milt could "Bop" with the best. (not the best recording quality)


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9QDa3FnqwE


In regard to Bird and Trane, I don't quite know how we're to proceed; especially when I see "Bird" as the "undisputed" king.

BTW got to make a run, don't expect an instant reply.



             

Frogman, you have attempted to give an objective answer to a subjective question. Your answers are meaningless to someone who doesn't speak the language; and in this case, there is no objective answer.

All music is "subjective"; why do think so few on this forum post on this thread? Alex thought there was something wrong with the thread that eluded him. After awhile it became apparent to me that there are so few on this forum who are "jazz aficionados".

What does all of what I just said have to do with "who is the King"? King of what? King of the saxophone? King of modern jazz? You got it, both.

Although the people on this forum don't know enough to consider themselves "aficionados", they know who Miles Davis is. His name is the most repeated name on this forum.

If the current top name in jazz, went to New York searching for "Bird", worshiped and almost idolized "Bird", what does that say about "Bird".

When he died; among aficionados, you would have thought the Pope died. I was in Chicago a year after he died, and saw "Bird Lives" scrawled all over the place. I'm sure it was the same in New York.

While the name "Trane" is held very high, the name "Bird" is held even higher.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman; Alex posted yesterday at 5:17PM and you haven't responded, but you decided to post a "destructive" comment to me; it's been evident your only objective is to destroy this thread; I call it "jealously". Otherwise you would have started your own thread a long time ago.

That's part of your last post below.

Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.

If you know so many participants who for various reasons choose not to participate in this thread, why don't you at least divulge the reasons; I'm sure you were sworn to secrecy and can not divulge the names.

That's the kind of snarky sh-t you have been posting for some time. What's your reply to this?

Frogman, I was listening to "Bird With Strings" and it occurred to me that you had the audacity to compare Trane with Bird, insinuating that Trane might be better.

"Bird" is, was, and always will be in a league of his own. There were none before him, and there will be none after him. "Bird With Strings" is just as up to date this instant, as it was when he cut it, in 1949.

Your evaluation my dear sir, indicates you are in the "Junior League" of aficionados.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I read where there are men on the moon; but I wont say where because I was sworn to secrecy.

Alex has been sincerely trying to find some answers, that you have, but will not divulge them.

Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.

It sounds to me like you have a secret that others want to know, why don't you tell us why the multitudes of others refuse to post on this thread; that's an old trick.

Every Time things are running smooth on this thread you rock the boat.

Things were running smooth on page 148; that was too good for you wasn't it?


 

In regard to the question, "Why do some people start new threads for jazz questions?" Honestly, I don't know, but I can speculate in regard to some possibilities.

This might be the longest thread in the history of "Audiogon"; it's so big that people are intimidated when they try and get a feel for what it's about. That sounds like a very good reason to me. If they have a question, and start a thread asking the question they want answered, they are guaranteed of getting responses.

If you notice, this thread is comprised of regulars who have been on this thread since it's beginning on 02-24-2013. Occasionally we'll pick up a knowledgeable aficionado, and lose him after a few pages of quarrels that he has no interest in, and if they continue; he's gone for good.

Apparently Frogman knows how to get under my skin, and get a stupid argument going, because he does it quite frequently, and says "Who me?"

I stated that Milt Jackson is the undisputed king of the jazz vibraphone, actually hoping to open a discussion and ward off any serious debate; especially since Rok had already stated  that Milt Jackson was the king.

As it happened, Frogman was the first responder, and there is nothing Frogman likes better than a good argument, and he wont quit with me until he gets one.

So much for that; back to a more serious question that Frogman claims to have the answer to "Why aren't there more posters on this thread?"

If you go through the music threads that date for a year, you will see very few relating to jazz, and even the one's you find will be very specific, and it will be obvious why they asked the question on a new thread, as opposed to coming here. That's my conclusion, if anyone has anything else, please share it.


Enjoy the music.

 

When You hear the beauty of this tune that was made in 49, and sounds as current as if it was made yesterday, you know why "Bird" is idolized.

The way bird can riff over a slow easy going ballad is amazing; this tune is too beautiful for words.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmRkZeGFONg


Enjoy the music.

Acman, I've never heard this one; it's simplicity personified, "We don't need no more trouble". The lyrics and the music make you want to hang out on the beach under a coconut tree with some loving company.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, if Trane were alive today, he wouldn't even back up your statement in regard to "Bird". I'm beginning to wander if you can really hear jazz, because apparently you haven't heard "Bird".

Have you read Miles Bio? Do you have any idea why "Bird" is idolized over Trane? Do you have any idea why "all" the jazz giants idolize "Bird"?

If Trane himself would not back up any of your statements where you place him over "Bird", then you must be lost in the woods.

If there had not been a "Charles Parker" there would not be a John Coltrane; he started out imitating "Bird" note for note; now what does that say about who's boss?

The proof of the pudding lies in the listening; some can hear, some can not; jazz is a very special music where you have to listen deeply to a number of phases intently to hear what musicians in each phase are doing. If you came into jazz exclusively in the "Coltrane Era", you may not be able to hear all the things "Bird" did.


Enjoy the music.

Now if you want fast and complex; here's some of "Birds" best bop.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMCviqO95k


Here's "Bird" on Savoy Vinyl. Like I said; some can hear; while others can not. Although I feel blessed to be able to hear and comprehend this beautiful music, I would feel even more blessed if you could hear it as well; I mean hear it with your inner ear that can comprehend the incomprehensible. This music is from the soul; that's different from soul music.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl5P0cfiR2M&list=RDZl5P0cfiR2M#t=99


That is not to say that John Coltrane did not have a language of his own


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clC6cgoh1sU&index=5&list=RDZl5P0cfiR2M



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I feel that I got sucked into a silly argument, that I didn't want to be in, in the first place, and now you cop out.

And what about this;


Btw, I think you shortchange others on this forum. There are many participants here who, for (I assume) various reasons, choose not to participate in this thread. I base that on comments I read made on other threads. Imo, it's always best to not make too many assumptions about what and how much one knows; personally, I prefer to focus on what I may not know.


These are your words, could you please expand on them; they allude to some mysterious reason others who are jazz aficionados choose not to participate in this particular thread; could you expand on your own words.