Is there any place nearby the Washington DC area to hear either of the Lyngdorf integrated amps?
Lyngdorf TDAI-3400
Well, after reading all the rave reviews of the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 both here and other places, I decided to order a TDAI-3400 for myself. I must admit I am still skeptical that such a diminutive piece of equipment can sound better than the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP tube amp weighing more than 50 lbs, but I have been so intrigued by everything I have read I simply had to pull the trigger.
I just unboxed it today, hooked everything up, and am listening to it for a while before setting up Room Perfect.
I really want to hear the what the amp sounds like as-is for a bit to understand it better.
First impressions: Without Room Perfect it sounds like very nice solid state amps I've owned in the past, but to be honest, I don't find the sound to be particularly moving. I moved to tubes after years of solid state, and I swore I would never go back. That is where I'm coming from. I should also add that I always try to keep an open mind. While my initial take on it might sound like I don't like it, I hope folks just read this as me being as honest as possible about what I hear. I know the tendency when buying new gear is to want so badly to love it in order to justify the expense that it's easy to fool oneself into believing it's an improvement over what you had before, even when it's not. Of course I really want it to be as mind blowing as it has been built up in my mind to be, but if it's not I am OK with simply moving back to what I have liked so far.
I have only been playing records through it so far. Analog makes up 98% of my listening so that's where I am starting with it. I have a nice CD transport that I will connect to it in the next day or so just to hear the DAC in the unit. I will also experiment with playing files from USB sticks, computer audio from my MacBook Pro, and whatever else I decide. I am not prepared to purchase a music server just yet, but it's something I have thought about for a while.
My system: speakers are Harbeth Monitor 40.1's. Turntable is an SME 20/2 with SME IV.iv tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge, fed to a Parasound JC-3+ phono preamp. Power conditioner is Audioqest Niagara 7000. CD transport is a Wadia 8.
I will report back as I have more time to experiment and let the amp break in.
I just unboxed it today, hooked everything up, and am listening to it for a while before setting up Room Perfect.
I really want to hear the what the amp sounds like as-is for a bit to understand it better.
First impressions: Without Room Perfect it sounds like very nice solid state amps I've owned in the past, but to be honest, I don't find the sound to be particularly moving. I moved to tubes after years of solid state, and I swore I would never go back. That is where I'm coming from. I should also add that I always try to keep an open mind. While my initial take on it might sound like I don't like it, I hope folks just read this as me being as honest as possible about what I hear. I know the tendency when buying new gear is to want so badly to love it in order to justify the expense that it's easy to fool oneself into believing it's an improvement over what you had before, even when it's not. Of course I really want it to be as mind blowing as it has been built up in my mind to be, but if it's not I am OK with simply moving back to what I have liked so far.
I have only been playing records through it so far. Analog makes up 98% of my listening so that's where I am starting with it. I have a nice CD transport that I will connect to it in the next day or so just to hear the DAC in the unit. I will also experiment with playing files from USB sticks, computer audio from my MacBook Pro, and whatever else I decide. I am not prepared to purchase a music server just yet, but it's something I have thought about for a while.
My system: speakers are Harbeth Monitor 40.1's. Turntable is an SME 20/2 with SME IV.iv tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge, fed to a Parasound JC-3+ phono preamp. Power conditioner is Audioqest Niagara 7000. CD transport is a Wadia 8.
I will report back as I have more time to experiment and let the amp break in.
111 responses Add your response
Well, similar to the OP, I tried the same thing again the next day and mysteriously, it worked. There was nothing different about this attempt but somehow it was able to detect the microphone and I was able to launch Room Perfect. I will say though that I reached out to Ellington Hifi and Tony got back to me within a few hours. He then tried to reach out to me by phone multiple times during the day and we finally connected later on in the day. Though I was not his original customer, he treated me like one and his effort to help did not go unnoticed. Just a stand up guy, Tony is. I wouldn't hesitate to work with him in the future for anything he carries. Just thought I'd put that out there. |
I just received the 3400 and am trying to run Room Perfect but I can't seem to get it started. As soon as I run it, I hear a sound coming out of my left speaker (not the right) and I get the Signal Error and it prompts me to check my microphone connection. Anyone else with this issue? The 3400 comes with a microphone that connects to the XLR to XLR microphone cable which then connects to a XLR to mini-jack which goes into the front "Mic" socket. I've tried rebooting as well but to no avail. Same error each time as I try to get Room Perfect to run. For those that have had this issue, any ways you can think of to get it to work? For those that have not had this issue, any idea as to what I might be doing wrong? Maybe the microphone is defective? |
@t_ramey I am really enjoying my 3400. As with most things in high end, whether someone could live with it long term depends on their priorities. It does not quite have the mid-range magic of a good SET tube amp, but I find its mid-range to be very natural sounding, and the soundstage overall fuller and somehow more "complete" than other amps I've had, with excellent imaging as well. The bass is also tighter and deeper than I've had, though this is hard to compare with some other amps from the past, since I had different speakers in those days. The Room Perfect is very nice, though how it important it is may depend upon the challenges of the room. Since my system is in the living room with very little in the way of room treatments, it is nice to have. In all, I'm very happy with both the sound and versatility of the 3400, though it did take a little time to get used to the loss of the SET sound. I feel sure that if I went back now, there are more things that I would miss about the Lyngdorf. Honestly, convenience is also part of the equation. But the sonics are excellent as well, at least for my tastes. I hope that helps. |
The sound quality after RC is applied is far better in my room. Not just the bass. Seems your over generalized comment is perhaps flawed. Many owners find the post RC sound quality to be superior top to bottom. Far fewer don’t. Have you owned a 2170 or 3400 and used it for an extended time in your room? Do you have first hand experience in your room? The RC used by Lyngdorf is proprietary and state of the art. Over generalizations don’t help here. |
Room correction begins with the flawed premise that a single microphone can hear what our ear/brain hears in our room. It's not even close. They can do a great job cleaning up unruly bass. But past 200 hz you're doing more harm than good "correcting" the frequency response that your speaker designer worked so hard for. |
| Post removed |
First you need to use cabling noted for natural unforced sound. Cabling that has great midrange bloom and meat on the bones weight. Cabling that has natural tone and serves up details with smooth and warm personality. No silver. No silver over copper. Cables made from Duelund tinned and stranded copper wire in cotton is ideal. Absolutely ideal. Yes, I make such cables. Other cables also fit this bill such as Cerious Tech. I good power cord and balanced power conditioner. Stay away from silver power cords and too much shielding. I am a big fan of balanced isolation transformers in front of the Lyngdorf. These help deliver a full bodied and natural sound quality. Keep the unit on as it sounds best after being on some 12 hours. Fully on....not in standby. Run room correction to at least 98 percent room reading. I did some internal mods to mine that really brought out the intimacy and realism. I won’t go into that here as it is not something many would do with warranty issues etc,... |
Wow, I had not realized that there were quite a few Line Magnetic owners that have also experimented with the 3400. I just jumped on the 3400 that was on sale as well and am really looking forward to having this be the primary amp for my system. After having tried the Luxman 509X and the 590AXII in my system, my bar is fairly high in terms of solid state amps. Not sure this can do much better but I like the flexibility that this unit has on paper. Room calibration, HDMI inputs and outputs, headphone, small footprint and runs cool. It should prove to be a good alternative for me as I will be keeping my 805ia to do tube duty whenever I feel like it. I am not also considering a server/streamer ... sounds like Innuos and Lumin/Melco might be options. Anyone with experience with those streamers? |
@grannyring Thanks for your information. I had everything set like you mentioned and I'm pretty sure i did everything correctly, but you never know. I will give it another try after my subs are in and everything is broken in. One thing that I am curious about is where should I place "myself" during the calibration? |
@aniwolfe Thanks for the link. I had already watched the video and I believe I did the room perfect correctly. I will give it a try in a month or so when the subs are in place and everything is broken in. I'm in no hurry as I'm really liking the sound without room perfect! The Paradigm Persona's are amazing speakers, |
I would say you need to look at the RP instructions again and follow them very carefully. Set the speakers up to sound the very best they can in your space without RP. Then you run RP. It may take a little time to become more expert in using RP. Losing all the highs is never something that should happen with a properly run RP set up. Something was not set up properly. Also make sure you are using the Focus position setting along with Neutral. You may have engaged one of the sound filters beyond neutral by accident. |
Well, my 3400 arrived today and I have to say I’m pretty impressed with the sound with just a few hours on it, mind you that my Paradigm Persona’s are also brand new, and not yet broken in. Believe it or not, what least impressed me was the room perfect. I ran it and it made the sound very midrange heavy, the highs where pretty much gone and even the bass was not as punchy. After my subs arrive, and everything is broken in, I will run room perfect again to see what it can do. |
@velomane No there’s no risk in hurting anything as -12db is lower in gain than -10db. There are also gain compensations per input, per profile, should you which to compensate, but -2db is pretty negligible so I would just simply increase the volume gain on your headphone amp to compensate if I were you. |
Thanks jcarcopo, I really appreciate the help. After doing some reading, it would seem that a fixed output level of -10dB is industry standard, yet the software defaults to -12. Is there any risk of damaging my headphone amp with either of these settings? As an aside, the Lyngdorf software is quite amazing in its versatility. This machine just continues to impress me in all respects. |
@velomane - you are allowed 2 Roon Perfect Setups so setup the secondary with the output to the XLR ACTIVE in the GUI WEB MENU. No need to do any measurements. Alternatively, you could also activate the XLR preamp output on Room Perfect profile 1 and just switch it to bypass mode. Whichever you choose or think is more simple. Turning Roomperfect off via bypass while XLR Preamp mode is enabled or creating a 2ndary RoomPerfect Profile with no measurements and also with the XLR Preamp outputs enabled. In this instance you would switch between Roomperfect profile 1 or 2 and have bypass engaged even though it’s sort of moot since you would not have stored any mic measurements anyway for that headphone profile. Hope this helps you out. As far as output level you are allowed variable or fixed output gain settings and also gain compensation settings. Since you wish to use the headphone amp's volume control set it to fixed on the Lyngdorf. |
I got my 3400 for about 2 months now and couldn't be happier. I use it to stream music from Tidal via Roon through Nucleus+ to the 3400 via USB. I also use it to play all kind of disc media from my OPPO 205 via HDMI connection. I have the best sound ever in my dedicated room. Room Perfect is just great and adds a lot to shape the sound in my room. Makes a big difference. Also, few days ago I was comparing some power cords feeding the 3400. It did make a difference. The one I had on hand that was clearly the best among few others was made by Soundstring. It's the Generation II Platinum Series SE power cord. In my set up it brought up the imaging, clarity, focus, tonality... to another level. Don't know why, but it just works so well with the 3400. BTW, I plug the 3400 directly into a dedicated outlet in the wall. |
I just purchased a 3400 to see what all the hype is about. I should get it next week. This will hopefully be replacing a Metrum acoustics Ambre Roon endpoint to Audio-GD NFB7.77 Dac to Krell EVO 202 preamp to Halo JC1 monblocks. I hope all the hype is true to same all that money. BTW, how does the 3400 claim to have 200w/ch/8 ohm when the power input on the back says 140W? I want to use my PS audio P5 power conditioner with this and want to make sure it is safe. |
| Post removed |
I am curious whether this unit will work with a simple ethernet connection to a Nas hard drive? On my PS audio DAC , I found that the ethernet was superior with the bridge, then with USB. Also, wondering if the manufacturer intends to develop a product without a built-in amplifier For those of us who like our speaker amplifier coupling. |
You can use Google translation for French if you use chrome browser. Chrome will ask you whether you want automatic translation. It applies not only to French but also German, Polish and other languages. I will wait for your output before triggering the gun, I am still wondering whether I will go for 3400 or updating my 8 years old EmmLab Dac2. |
@shkong78 Sorry to leave you hanging. My weekend didn't go as planned, so I have not yet had an opportunity to follow through on running the 3400 as a preamp for the LM 508, but I will get to it sometime this week. In the meantime, I am really enjoying the 3400 as is. I was unable to read the review--is there a way to translate it to English? But it sounds pretty much in line with where I am--the ONLY area where the 3400 doesn't quite match the 508 is in the midrange, but I do look forward to an A/B comparison to see just what the gap may be. There will be gaps in the 3400's favor as well. Also, as a previous owner of a Devialet D200, I can say without any doubt that the 3400 is far, far better in my system and to my ears. I thought the Devialet sounded clean and clear, but in the long run, it was just not as musically engaging as I wanted it to be. No such issue with the 3400, which is keeping me nights listening and smiling. |
https://www.opus51.fr/les-tests/item/870-lyngdorf-tdai-3400-le-test One of the most detailed review of 3400. It say good things about 3400 but no Karma in the midrange which may be only possible with SET. It also mention that 3400 sound far superior to what a Devialet 220 Pro can offer, |
Just wanted to share my latest experience with the 3400 and the Encores. I'm going to add the Oppo 205 to this, as I use it as my digital source for everything but streaming. That is taken care of by Tidal/Roon/Nucleus +. So, I have about 200 SACDs, some DVDAs and a few Bluray audio discs. In all my previous setups I had to listen to all of the above via analog outs on my Oppo. Digital out could only be used to handle Red Book CDs. As good as the sound of all those high resolution disks was I slowly started losing interest in them. Once I got the Lyngdorf, I started experimenting with the digital out in my Oppo via HDMI out (Main) and the HDMI input of my Lyngdorf. Since the TDIA accepts only PCM through the HDMI in, I had to make sure that PCM and not DSD is being sent by the Oppo. I connected both units via pretty generic HDMI cable and listened to several of my SACDs, mostly jazz and vocals but also some classic rock like Pink Floyd, the Stones, etc. This was the best experience in my room ever!!! The sound was so incredibly good that I couldn't stop listening. To me it was more real than ever before. I'm not great in describing the sound in "audiophile" terms but I can tell you that the combination of Oppo, Lyngdorf and the Tekton Encores (via HDMI) created unbelievably realistic music in my room with real sounding instruments and voices. BTW, Red Book CDs sounded awesome too. So, now I am tempted to look for a good HDMI cable even though I can't imagine how it could make it sound better. But..., you just never know ;) |
I've had my eye on the TDAI-2170 and now the 3400. I came across this YouTube video comparing I believe a tube setup vs. the 3400. I know you can't judge sound quality thru a YouTube video, but I definitely thought the snare drum was a lot more believable with the tube setup. Any one else hear the same thing? Gary https://youtu.be/2AEzr6MhYpU |
@almarg Thanks for the help. I already have the limiter engaged. Lyngdorf finally got back to me, apparently my issue ticket was left on the wrong desk. They want me to upload a copy of the backup settings to drop box and let them analyze it to see what's going on. There's is a dip around 100hz based on a prior manual room correction measurement using REW. It was being corrected through Roon though not as aggressively, but the Lyngdorf can add up to 10db of gain to compensate. This should still allow me to turn the unit volume up to 0db, but I'm having issues at -7db so something isn't right. I'll get the file to Lyngdorf so maybe they can shed some light on what's going on. |
@JCarcopo, I took a look at the manual for the 3400, and here are some things that appear to me may be worth trying: 1) There is a limiter function that can be engaged via the menus. Try that, if you already haven’t. 2) The section in the manual on RoomPerfect states as follows: You can always add room measurements to increase the RoomKnowledge, and if you have a bit too much bass, we recommend taking a couple of measurements within 50cm/1.5ft of the walls and ceiling when above 90% RoomKnowledge.Perhaps doing that would resolve the problem, while not reducing overall bass response to an unacceptable degree. 3) After looking at the manual the answer to the question I raised previously still isn’t clear to me, namely whether or not the unit can provide visibility into the specific characteristics of the room corrections. Perhaps that can be obtained in the screens that are depicted in the "Voicing Setup" section of the manual, or perhaps not. But if it can be, seeing exactly what the corrections are may provide a clue as to how to address the problem. And perhaps the solution would be creation of a suitable "voicing filter," to reduce the magnitude of one or more specific boosts the RoomPerfect function has introduced. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Peter, thanks for your post. This is very encouraging for me especially, since I play a lot of vinyl. I would love to try XLR, but unfortunately, my Allnic H1201 is RCA only. I hope you find a music server that suits you. I've been pretty pleased with my Aurender X100L. It sounds good to me, I can stream TIDAL through it, and it has 6 TB of storage. |
An update to my original post after about two weeks of listening... First of all, the amp's sound has really started to settle in and relax. At first it had a bit of a congested and tight sound to it. Not really bad, just not great. I estimate I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hours on it so far, and I leave it turned on 24/7 as some folks have suggested. As a reminder, I primarily play vinyl through it, and while I have been exploring the digital features of the amp, I'm still listening to 90% or more in the analog realm. THE BIGGEST difference I have experienced so far is when I switched from RCA cables to XLR between my phono preamp and the Lyngdorf. I bought some Pangea XLR cables, of which I have heard great things, and connected them the other night. What I heard after that was just mind boggling! It's the first time for me to use balanced cables in a system, and all I can say is I'm a believer. EVERYTHING sounds so much better. This is the best I have ever heard music sound in any system I have owned. Adding the high end analog inputs to this amp is essential, in case anyone considering this amp is on the fence. As for digital... I've been plugging my MacBook Pro into the USB input of the amp and playing a variety of FLAC and hi-rez files to test the sound capabilities of these features. To be honest, the sound is really good, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the analog side to me in the current configuration. It just sounds like really good digital sound, which is just OK IMO. I am seriously considering adding a music server to the chain (still researching), as I know that most decent servers are said to sound much better than a MacBook Pro. Cheers, Peter |
@charles1dad I hope to get some response from Lyngdorf very soon. Hopefully they will swap units, but I fear the Lyngdorf is boosting certain frequencies which is causing the clipping problem. If that is the case I'll need to reposition the speakers and hope to fix the issue with placement even though its well nigh perfect in my room atm. I will say when it's playing properly and not clipping its amazing sounding at higher volume levels. |
Hi Waltersalas, I’m looking forward to your upcoming listening impressions with the system maneuvering you propose. You make an exceptionally compelling case for the Lyngdorf, that is for certain. The LM 608ia provides those elusive "goosebump" moments (which I totally understand). If further burn-in time and fine tuning tweaks could very possibly get the Lyngdorf to the "goosebump" level. If so then overall the Lyngdorf would be the superior choice. Even without the "goosebumps" the Lyngdorf exceeds the LM 508ia in several very meaningful sonic parameters. Again I thank you for your always clear and very descriptive writing. Charles |
Shadorne 9-20-2018 +1. My thoughts exactly. @JCarcopo, perhaps the unit is working as designed, but the room correction function is doing exactly what Shadorne is saying. I know that the DAC circuit at the output of the DEQX HDP-5 I use as my preamp can be clipped if any bass frequencies are boosted for room correction by more than about 6 db, depending on the frequency content of the music. In my case, though, exactly what the HDP-5 is doing for room correction, at every frequency, is visible and adjustable manually, via a computer that can be connected to it. Does the 3400 provide visibility into the characteristics of the corrections it introduces? Regards, -- Al |
