" First I wanted to check on a few things, such as whether these speakers work at all, and I can do that only once I get a receiver (right?)."
The speakers are very efficient, so yes, a receiver will work. That said, I wouldn't get one. Something like an NAD integrated amp would be a better choice. Efficient speakers don't need that much power, but they do need clean power. That's why the NAD would be a better choice. Also, a $500 NAD will have just as much, if not more, power than a typical $500 receiver.
" E.) i- Are XLR jacks better connections than just regular wire, or did I misread this?"
Don't open that can of worms right now. It won't be a relevant factor in the system you're currently building.
" speaking of which, how do I actually connect the wires to the Cornwalls? It's a very basic question, but I've never had proper speakers like this, and I don't want to screw it up. Is there a particular technique or nuance?"
Use regular speaker cables like you would for any speaker. They don't have to be expensive. Get a spool of Monster or Audioquest. You can get both of those in Best Buy. |
I agree with getting an integrated amp. Modern receivers (AVRs) in your price range are are of lower build quality, use cheap electronics, and small power supplies; meaning they do not provide quality power. And yes, there would be a noticeable improvement in sound between an NAD integrated and an AVR. speaking of which, how do I actually connect the wires to the Cornwalls? It’s a very basic question, but I’ve never had proper speakers like this, and I don’t want to screw it up. Is there a particular technique or nuance? You do not connect the speaker wire to XLR jacks. You simply connect the wires from the speaker’s Positive (red) and Negative (black) binding posts and run the wire to the matching posts on the back of the amp or receiver. Making sure not to criss-cross the wires; red to red, black to black. http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=11935Monoprice does not label the wires as pos or neg, so it’s your choice. How do I remove the frame from the front of the speaker in order to replace the cloth? Try using a very small flathead screwdriver and gently pry the cover off the speaker. Look for a gap between the wood cabinet anf the speaker grill. |
-4K TV -1 Turntable/Pre-Amp (mentioned above) -4K Ultra HD bluray -cable box
If you ultimately plan on expanding into a home theater setup, then an AVR would be the way to go. You can use 4 speakers (or more), and accept the digital from the bluray and cable, while inputting analogue from a TT. But there would be a compromise in the quality of 2 channel listening. A dedicated amp would be best. Since playing itunes via Bluetooth is important to you, NAD makes a Bluetooth integrated amp, rated at 30 wpc into 8 ohms, (your speakers are 8 ohms). Otherwise, in your price range, there are many AVRs. |
Thanks, all.
So, I would be getting a dedicated integrated amp and THEN a receiver later on?
@lowrider57 is this one you mentioned?
how many other devices can I hook up to this? |
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I don't know the minimum power but when calling Klipsch, he recommended a 100 watt receiver. Any other resource for finding the precise min wattage needed? Here's the spec sheet for the Cornwall 3 - http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/70th-Anniversary-Cornwall-III-Spec-Sheet-v01.pdfAlso, my speakers are 8 ohms per speaker? @lowrider57 In any case, you mind putting up the link for the 50 watt amp? This is also a pre-amp, correct? So theoretically I could replace my aforementioned Pro-ject pre-amp with this one, or no? |
djniteline, look on the back of your speakers to see if you can find serial numbers. If so, I can give you more info about them. I have a document with lots of detailed information about the Heritage Series from beginning to 2008. Depending on their age, front grills may not be removable.
The Pro-ject is a phono preamp only. If the receiver or amp you choose has phono input, you will not need this, however if no phono input, then you will need it.
You absolutely do not need 100 watts. Trying to put a number on the minimum is tough. Because of the high sensitivity, a low wattage high quality, high current amp will drive them with no problem. A cheap low quality higher wattage amp will drive them, but just sound horrible.
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First you must decide if you want to build a 2 channel system or want a multichannel one. Often this decision is based on usage, music vs. movie. I have found that a 2 channel system works fine to augment audio for video. I stay focused toward the music side.
If you wish to start out with a 2 channel system then I agree that an integrated amplifier is the way to go. The NAD recommendation is good, I own the NAD 326BEE. and would recommend it over the 3020D for your purposes. It is 50wpc, however as mentioned above provides more usable power than most budget 100wpc AVRs. The NAD doesn't have a phonostage so you would use your ProJect into it.
NAD is not the only integrated amplifier line that can be recommended. Yamaha and Rotel are 2 popular brands that come to mind. Buying used can extend one's budget. As another thought, one can build a multi channel system around a 2 channel one consisting of an integrated amp provided that amp has a home theater bypass feature.
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I should add that the NAD326BEE has the inputs you will need. Five line level (one with 3.5 mm) and a tape monitor loop. |
Thanks, everyone.
@tls49 serial is 3L716
@mesch I think a 2-channel system is fine. As long as I can somewhat augment my TV/solid state video/cable. I'm a bit of a cinephile also, but I don't need crazy 7.2 or anything, just quality audio. And I agree that 50 wpc does sound adequate as, again, I can't blow the roof off my living room. There's lots of glass and hard surfaces everywhere.
I would like the C326BEE but I need Bluetooth. Does something like this exist for the same price point?
I would build in the future, when I have more time to learn, but for now I need a decent quality system.
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Date of manufacture - 1973 Still not sure about the grill, but drivers are mounted from rear. Front mounted were introduced in 1986 with Cornwall II, so not much reason for an easily removable grill. IMHO, if they are in decent shape, I would leave them alone. Older Klipsch can be collectable, and being original is better. But if you must, sometimes a putty knife can help. I wouldn't be concerned with having Bluetooth built-in the amp. You can always use a Bluetooth receiver like the ones here. https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-bluetooth-receiversThere's a broad range of price and quality. The Yamaha might be a good compromise choice. Also, there are many more available besides these. This also allows for future amp upgrade without the concern of Bluetooth. The NAD C326BEE is a good recommendation and should work well with the Cornwall. |
The C326BEE lacks internal Bluetooth. They often come up used or as refurbished here on AG. A separate bluetooth receiver could be attached to a line level input. That said there are integrateds with internal bluetooth. NAD has a new line of integrateds that have internal DACs and may have Bluetooth. I would have to check on this.
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In the new line the C 338 may be of interest to you. It is a Class D amplifier. I don't know if it has been released yet so has not had the exposure that the C 326BEE has. It has 4 digital inputs, WiFi and Bluetooth inputs, and 3 analog inputs with a onboard phonostage. The value of digital vs. analog inputs would be determined by the outputs of your blueray player and cable box (digital vs. analog).
My personnel bias is toward the C 326BEE as I prefer standard class A or A/B amplifiers. There are many threads here discussing the Class D types vs class A or AB.
Take your time and research your options. Good luck in your search.
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I owned a pair of these for many years. Beautiful speakers with amazing sound. You only need 3-5 watts to drive them to very loud levels. So, don't get hung up on wattage. Keep in mind that a crappy 100 watt receiver will sound much worse than a vintage Marantz with only 18 watts.
To get the grills off, they are almost always held on with velcro all around. Pull/pry off carefully so you don't harm the wood or break the grills. A paint can opener may work.
You don't need tubes but a "warmer" sounding amp is best. These speakers will sound harsh with some gear. Enjoy these, if you like the horn sound, there's nothing better. Bass is amazing too.
What is your budget for an amp/receiver? There are ones with streaming, bluetooth and much more that will work well. |
You’ve got good speakers, so I agree that you should concentrate on finding a quality integrated. You can add a Bluetooth receiver, DAC, and phono pre.
One reason NAD is highly recommended is because even though it has a modest power rating, it provides the current needed to drive many speaker demands.
For movies you can add a subwoofer to the amp to fill the room with extended low-end and add realism to the sound effects. |
Fwiw,
If you can find a local audio nut, they could help a lot. Many audio folks are friendly and helpful, after all it's their hobby and interest.
You may consider looking on your local Craigslist under electronics and scan for audio gear ads that are enthusiastic and personable. Give them a call and ask if they, or someone they know would be willing to help a guy out. You've done a thoughtful job of posing relevant questions. The right person can help you with gear questions and have you listening to music pretty quickly.
My advice is to move slowly at first regarding purchases. I've owned the Cornwalls little brother, the Chorus. They are dynamic and you probably can enjoy your tunes with a rather inexpensive receiver, commonly found used on Craigslist until you start forming an opinion of what you want more or less of. Might ask your neighbor if he has any more gear he wants to sell- in fact he may be the guy to guide you through this. Seems like pretty nice guy to me.
Sorry for the long post, just trying to help. You've got some nice speakers to build a system around. The right person can help you get going and help you position your speakers, which is an important detail. Of course, be mindful who you invite into your home, etc. Maybe there is local audio club, etc. (The Nad suggestion is solid btw- guys on here are sharp and helpful, just thinking a local could help move things along easier.)
Best,
gary
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@elevick @mesch @tls49 @lowrider57 @uncledemp @mb1audio02
A couple more things. The following features are not offered by the NAD326BEE: -Built-in DAC (Digital to Analog Converter): What does this mean? I Googled it but I am still a bit confused. Is there an add-on I can get which is good quality? -Optical audio inputs: Really? I feel like even basic AVR's have this, although I've never done optical before Is it worth it?? Does it have Optical OUTputs? The bluetooth receiver I get will have an optical out. Should I get it anyways? -High-resolution Audio Playback? Is this necessary? Sounds gimmicky. Remember, I do have large-format AIFF files on my phone and will want to hardwire them through the receiver/3.5mm jack through my phone or another dedicated drive. Thanks again, all. |
You will need a DAC, a digital to analog converter. These can be bought having optical, coax, and USB inputs. Therefore a single DAC can serve several selectable digital inputs and output to a single line level input on the NAD326BEE. I believe having a separate DAC as opposed to a internal one is better for the flexibility it provides.
Your bluetooth device will occupy the toslink optical input on the DAC. If your BD player has a coax digital output it could be linked to the DAC. Your computer can occupy the USB input.
I use a MAC (have both a Mini and a macbook) with AIFF flies as playback on all my systems. I own several DACs, all bought used.
Several come up for sale here on AG. I will take a look after posting this.
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There is a MicroMega ($130) and a Music Hall DAC ($250) for sale now. Both having the inputs you need. You might also check out Schiit Audio web site. They make several DACs all considered very good for the money.
Once again, good luck! |
@mesch Thanks! Which of the Schitt do you recommend? I think they would look great in my system, given their look.
I just bought the NAD! Very excited. Will keep all posted on the developments of my audio setup and results.
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Your NAD integrated/Cornwall combo should sound fantastic.
Please keep us posted and enjoy.
Bill |
Good for you, I bet you will really enjoy the Nad.
I have a Schiit Modi Multibit ($250) and use it with my CD player and BT receiver.
Of course there are several other manufacturers of quality dacs.
Regards,
gary
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Given that you have music as AIFF files, is your laptop a MAC?
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You have a very good analog system complimentary to your newly purchased amplification, and congrats on that. First thing is to prove that your new speakers are in working order using this (as you have stated). Then you can focus toward your digital sources.
You indicated that you wanted to put together a quality system now that could be improved as you learned more as to how to satisfy your needs. It seems to me that those needs reside in the digital domain. Any advise that can be provided requires knowledge as to the options available. Therefore some of the following questions.
Audio for your TV can be routed from the cable box. Many have digital and coax output. If yours does then you could simply route the analog outputs to the NAD. Another option is to route a digital signal to a DAC then into the NAD. What are the outputs on this box?
What are the outputs on your Blueray player, analog vs.digital? Do you use this player for CDs as well as for video disks?
Are you interested in using your MAC laptop as a server to play the AIFF flies? This has the potential to be your best music source.
Regarding bluetooth use, you can transmit from your computer or your iphone. This is where you will need to differentiate between convenience needs and sound quality needs. Also your primary listening area focus vs. whole house listening. This is also where I have the least experience as i don't use bluetooth.
Oh, I should add that you are welcome. I enjoy sharing on this forum.
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Very well said @mesch .
As mesch stated, Bluetooth is convenient, but not the highest quality. Hardwiring components, eg, USB, provides higher SQ.
Good luck with your speakers. |
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Oops, meant to add this:
so, it seems that you are saying the quality of the digital audio is dependent on the Bluetooth source?
Is there a recommended USB hub with a small screen that people use for home entertainment? This way I won't have to dedicate a computer.
Thanks again. |
Lowrider, thanks for the kind words.
Djniteline, regarding bluetooth, the aptX codex as provided by the Audioengine B1( not the only one having this codex) recommended by lowrider provides, as I understand it, the best audio from bluetooth devices. That said, wireless signal transfer is not at the same quality as cable transfer.
The best digital performance from your system (NAD + Cornwall) would be obtained from playing CDs direct, or playing the AIFF files from computer or server via a DAC.
I use a Macbook Pro to play AIFF files and find it to have very good sound quality using itunes. The sound quality can be improved by using an after market playback program such as Pure Music which overlaps with itunes (I also use this program). My Macbook is not dedicated to music use only.
Once a system is in place one can always fine tune it for increased performance. Take things one step at a time. Lets get your TT/phonostage, cable box, and BlueRay player playing music through NAD/Cornwalls first and see how that sounds to you. Though it can at times seem frustrating, keep in mind it is all about plain ol' fun. |
I just posted in another thread about the audioengine bluetooth. You can get quite good sound out if it if done right. My phone (HTC One) streaming Tidal to the audioengine to a Chord Hugo was spectacular. Yes, the Chord is a bit more expensive but the difference was clearly noticeable. Can't hurt to try it?
My current DAC's: Schiit Bifrost, Emotiva UMC 200 pre with DAC and Oppo 105. I like the Schiit and Oppo, emotiva is just for movies. I think a Chordette is in my near future. |
So I should get DAC's for every individual digital source?
also, I just set up my speakers, NAD, preamp and turntables the other day and although the first couple days sounded great, last night a "buzz" started happening.
It stopped for the time being but has me a bit worried. (Otherwise the vinyl has sounded pretty nice and warm. )
How do I fix?
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Only need one DAC. It will have multiple inputs for your different sources.
Buzzing...is your TT grounded ? Are you using an RCA cable with a ground wire? |
Buzz - check that drivers are secure into the enclosures of your speakers. Check the surrounds on the bass drivers.
Hum - many possibilities, 1st to check is the TT grounding as suggested by lowrider. If your Blueray player has analog output try it and see if hum remains.
+1 lowrider re DAC inputs. |
Right u are, mesch, they are old speakers. Tighten up the drivers and any brackets in the cabinet...Gently. |
I had an issue with a nasty noise like a 'buzz'. Ended up being my dishwasher causing issues in the circuit. I don't normally operate my dishwasher during listening, so it took awhile to show itself.
Might take note of other electronics that are in operation while listening like ceiling fans.
Do all inputs have the buzz? Or just your turntable?
Like others said, check your ground for your turntable. Gently lift/wiggle your ground wire and see if the buzzing changes.
Your speakers have solid bass - check to see if other items in the room are rattling/buzzing. For instance, did you place a bowl, etc on or near your speakers?
Good advice on snugging your driver screws. Don't over do it, snug is good. I've heard of people overtightening drivers causing problems.
I'm sure you will figure it out- good luck.
gary
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Thanks, all. Ben very busy.
Problem has stopped for the time being. If it arises again, I'll pay attention to the circumstances and report accordingly. |
For the most part it seems you've had some pretty good advice- given that you don't want to use tubes.
Here's something to think about though! The Cornwall was designed to be played with tubes (the speakers made in the 60s were the same as the original late 1950s design). If you use solid state, you may find that the crossovers don't work as designed. this is one of the reasons that older horns are often thought as 'honky' and the like; if the midrange driver is operating outside its proper frequency band honky is what you get when you turn it up. If you experience 'shouty' or any other unpleasantness at volume this is also an indication.
You don't need much power- the whole issue with tubes since the beginning of time has been that tube power is expensive- so a tube amp of moderate power will be plenty. 30 watts will do the trick and if the amp is in good condition to begin with they really are not that hard to live with!
If you are really set on solid state, you might experiment with a bit of resistance in series with the speaker- 1 or 2 ohms for starters. This will reduce the damping of the amplifier and may well help out in the bass. Its common with higher efficiency drivers that you can overdamp the woofers fairly easily (high damping factor is not recommended). You might get thump but no definition as a result. The series resistor may help with that. Keep in mind though that the resistor will be dissipating amplifier power so it should be rated for a few watts!
The speaker has a good reputation. Its a lucky find- have fun!
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Excellent advice from @atmasphere . Personally, I would go with low powered valve amplification or sell the speakers and buy something more suitable for SS. |
First of all @mesch, the turntable is grounded but I am pretty sure my speaker wire could look less messy and I'm quite sure the way I wrapped it around the posts is dead wrong. This brings me to last night. **Last night, I had two problems with my speakers. (Please see pics of wire terminals) The first one happened when I went from TV to turntable. I went from AUX (I picked up a cheap Insignia analog-optical adapter and cable for the time being; there is no analog out of my TV) to CD (my turntable is assigned to this) and there was a very deep bass wave happening. It was very powerful and a bit scary.The volume was still up, but not much. The second problem happened when I reversed the previous and went back to TV (optical). This is when the sound from the previous post happened again, a harsh, rapid oscillating sound. Perhaps I should POWER OFF when switching from one input to another. I hope these new speakers aren't broken. They do sound great.If you don't mind, please provide links and/or pics of things I need to fix this problem. The cords and everything looks like a rat's nest also, but I am also waiting on a proper media console to lay/conceal cords. Could someone advise on how much bare wire should be exposed and how I can better connect everything? Also, @atmasphere - interesting. When I called Klipsch, the man discouraged tube amps. Maybe that's because I prefaced our conversation with the word "affordable". (I'm still outside of year-long complete house remodel.) What does "clean" sound mean? Why is what a tube amp can do better than clean, or more desirable? P.S. I just found someone local who can come to my place and help me in person, but he is on vacation and won't be able to get here for a couple weeks. Thanks again. |
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Also, @atmasphere - interesting. When I called Klipsch, the man
discouraged tube amps. Maybe that's because I prefaced our conversation
with the word "affordable". (I'm still outside of year-long complete
house remodel.)
What does "clean" sound mean? Why is what a tube amp can do better than clean, or more desirable? I imagine you didn't tell him the speakers were from the 1960s, and I'll bet he wasn't even born by then. 'Clean' means 'not distorted', but to understand what that means the first thing you have to know is how the human ear works! To that end: the human ear brain system uses higher ordered harmonics to figure out how loud a sound is. In this regard its not using the fundamental tones. If the higher ordered harmonics (5th and above, so for a 100 Hz tone, 500Hz and above) are altered by the electronics, the ear will perceive the sound as louder than it actually is and will also assign a tonality to the sound. Higher ordered harmonics are perceived as 'brightness' (and also 'harshness', particularly in the case of the 7th harmonic). Low distortion on paper is meaningless unless we also know what it is
that makes it 'low'. Its one thing if we can see the lower orders in the
harmonic distortion spectrum. But if we are to take how the ear
perceives sound into account, the higher orders should really be a lot
lot lower than they are currently with all 'low THD' amps. And by that I
mean **at least** 2 orders of magnitude! Just being 'low THD' doesn't cut it. Now it happens that tube amps in general make less of the higher ordered harmonics than transistors do (this is why tubes are still around BTW); so as a result they don't sound as bright and tend to be smoother. (Tubes often make more of the lower ordered harmonics but apparently the ear does not care so much about that- back in the 1960s General Electric did some testing that showed that people would tolerate 30% of a 2nd harmonic in the sound, but objected strenuously if the higher orders were present at levels less than 0.5%.) The measure of this is easy enough- when you turn it up, the system should not *sound* loud. It should sound relaxed, despite playing a higher volume. Nor should you get any 'sound of horns' (honkiness); it should simply sound relaxed and a lot like real music. If, especially when you crank it, that it gets uncomfortable (brightness and harshness is indeed a coloration) then you will have a good understanding of why tube amps are still around decades on after being declared obsolete. Again- a good find- people are always on the lookout for earlier Klispch speakers- they have a reputation of being better than the later ones. I don't mean to cause any undo concerns either- this hobby is supposed to be fun after all :) Have Fun! |
Hopefully when your friend gets back he can help. Until then I have two thoughts. I would not leave that much exposed wire on the speaker cables. If they short it will damage the amp. Buy some spade lugs for the speaker ends.
You have a lot of equipment running through the power strip. Try using an extension cord to run the amp off a separate house circuit to see if that helps. Not to be permanent but as a test. |
http://http//www.showmecables.com/product/Spade-Plug-Metal-Gold-2-PK.aspx @atmasphere Thanks very much. I needed the lesson and hope you'll have more for me later. When you mentioned that the music shouldn't sound loud, that clicked. Because although I seemingly had a problem with my speaker the other night, I was enjoying the color and breadth of the sound. Indeed, it sounded rich - it DID NOT sound loud until the interruption happened, which may well have been caused by the lack of spade plug Mesch mentions, or the overloaded circuit. What is a tube amp you'd recommend for $400 or less? Should I sell my newly purchased NAD 326BEE? (which I just bought, as was the purpose/genesis of this thread)? I was also looking for a bluetooth DAC anyways, and someone made a great recommendation, but it seems Monoprice also makes a cheap tube/bluetooth combo that has great reviews - https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16153@mesch do I need one pair of spades for each side of wire at each point of connection, aka 4 pairs? I have isolated the receiver power to a separate outlet and will try it later. I have noticed the quickly oscillating, metronomic buzzing occurs usually after going from another input like AUX (where my toslink/optical adapter is from TV) or from the POWER OFF position. |
What is a tube amp you'd recommend for $400 or less? Well that's the thing about tube power, and why there are high efficiency loudspeakers. I can't think of where you would find a $400 tube power amp, unless you are able to find one on Craigslist or at a garage sale. Sometimes you find Dynaco ST-70s in such places. Usually they need to be refurbished, but if the price is right, they are totally worth it. |
@atmasphere so, will the tube amp completely replace my integrated amp or will the IA be used for all of my other inputs? |
If a power amp like the ST-70 you would still need a preamp.
If your budget really is that severe then the NAD might have to be the ticket for a while.
There are integrated tube amps from the classic period (1958 to 1965 or so). Most of them are 30 watts/channel or less, and go for a surprising amount of money if in good shape. But your speakers were built for amps exactly like that...
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@atmasphere per your previous comments, after giving my serial # in a previous comment, I was told my Cornwalls are from 1973, not the 60's. |
Yes, you will need 4 pairs.
Isolate amp to a separate outlet on a different circuit.
Does 'hum' occur with input to aux disconnected?
I would not consider another amplifier until your 'hum' issue is resolved. |
