@cleeds
Bold, but hollow and meaningless words, pal. |
cables is the most controversial issue in the audiophile world every time when there is a discussion on this subject the winds are burning... 😉
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....yeah and it is almost fun being on the side of truth and not have to make up stuff to justify your naivety. |
Intermission. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence,
Floyd: It's Liberty! He - he's hurt!
[Doc approaches Valance's body]
Floyd: It's Liberty.
Doc Willoughby: Whiskey, quick.
Person on street: Here, sir.
Doc Willoughby: [takes a drink, turns Valances body over with his foot] Dead.
[walks off]
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@geoffkait
I heard on the news today that scientists invented a chip to put inside anti-psychotic medications to monitor if you've taken them. You may want to speak to your doctor about those. It may help avoid those discombobulated outbursts. |
Wow, and I get my posts removed and they are far less offensive than^
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Amen. I had two removed in two weeks listed in an email along with the guidelines laying out the reasons and both didn't violate any of the reasons listed. I guess all it takes is for some snowflakes to cry to mommy since they have nothing valid to counter with. |
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@nonoise is that what it is? I am so bored with this thread. These"scientists" are more like evangelists with too much time on their hands. Ugh! Oops, was that profanity?
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Their bar is very low. I don't sweat it too much. It just takes reporting it and it's gone. It seems the tender egos go straight for the report button. I think Geoff has somewhat thicker skin. |
@greg22lz you're walking a tightrope there, my friend. 😃 |
@nonoise speaking of cables and break-in, I purchased the Tekton DI's a'nd they are so transparent that I have been having fun listening to the effects of different cables( OMG NOOOOO) in my system. I first plugged in an old ZuMother power chord that I had hanging around. my wife was sitting there, I asked "which one"? She said " oh that one by far" . out came the Speltz and in went the ZuMother. she knows nothing of cost, effect, status, only what it sounds like. Need anymore explanation? Anyway, I ended up buying a pair of Cerious G's and I love them!!!! then came the Blue Fuses. I am really liking what I am hearing!! very engaging and much closer to life like! really incredible for the price and actually I haven't heard anything this good, though I will be touring the Magico facility on Dec. 3rd, with wife, so that should be interesting. she knows nothing about audiophile stuff and is therefore the perfect "test" victim.
oh gosh, I hope I did not offend any moderators, eeeegadds.
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@greg22lz
Are you calling me some sort of scientist???
I think this would be a lot more fun if people had a thicker skin. |
I feel pretty comfortable saying it's probably krosst who's reporting the offending posts. |
@kosst_amojan well, no, a scientist would actually take information, such as here about cables, and see an opportunity for new reasearch instead of pigeonhole everyone who hears differences as deluded, so no you are more of a pseudo scientist, with an attitude. That's really the difference!
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Does someone have to report it to have it removed?
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@greg22lz The more I read and hear about the Tekton speakers, the more they remind me of my old Tonian Labs TL-D1s. They were so revealing of anything upstream that what would be considered small changes here and there amounted to significant differences in the resulting sound.
Fuses and cable swap outs resulted in obvious changes in tone, timbre, ambiance and depth, or see through, as I call it. Even footers made a noticeable difference. I used to love Herbie's tenderfeet but with the Tonians, I had to take them out and just perch the gear directly on the maple shelves. It was just a bit too foggy with them.
Anyhow, keep on keeping on and tweak away as long as you can hear the difference.
All the best,
Nonoise |
In all honesty I've never reported a single post here. I think that would reflect a thin skin and a weakness on my part. I think the trash talk is fun as long as nobody is getting killed. I probably wouldn't even be bothered if one of you did threaten my life. |
greg22lz
@kosst_amojan well, no, a scientist would actually take information, such as here about cables, and see an opportunity for new reasearch instead of pigeonhole everyone who hears differences as deluded, so no you are more of a pseudo scientist, with an attitude. That’s really the difference!
in krosst’s defense, he is not the only pseudo scientist with an attitude. That is pretty much the trademark of pseudo scientists. Think of Lee J Cobb, Juror #2 in 12 Angry Men. "But you can’t prove it!" 😀 Having had the benefit of many years of stalking by angry pseudo scientists on a mission, I think I can safely say the only one who didn’t have an attitude was The Amazing Randi. He let his vigilantes do all the ranting and attacking. Randi himself was always a gentleman. 😬
Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
advanced audio concepts
we do artificial atoms right!
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Sceientifics can not make valid tests with cables because there is no valid tests to check the human hearing ! how can they measure things like seperation between instruments, soundstage, details, brightness, refinement, transparency ... so on ???
These who don’t hear difference between cables are semi-deaf and not audiophiles, they will probably not hear difference between good recording to a bad one neither berween good hi fi components to lousy ones.
So all the ones claim there is no difference between cables will never admit their hearing is not sensitive/ skilled enough it’s more easy for them to jump to a false conclusion that there is no difference. Maybe all of us that do hear differences between cables are making things from our imagination and should be lock up in an institute and receive aggresive treatment to cure us from this psychotic probem ... |
Itzhak... That stuff is your imagination. It's a product of accurate reproduction. Cables have virtually nothing to do with that. So long as something measures sufficiently well those are the attributes you're going to hear. I don't understand why some of you think these attributes don't have some sort of measurement signature, but they sure as hell do. The pages of Stereophile and various pieces of research make that abundantly clear. I'm pretty sure you've posted that rant before and it's just as wrong now as when you posted it last. Go look some stuff up instead of making some stuff up. |
In all my years here I don't recall anyone's life being threatened. On the other hand there's always a first time but hopefully it won't happen. We live in crazy times.
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"Fuses and cable swap outs resulted in obvious changes in tone, timbre, ambiance and depth, or see through, as I call it. Even footers made a noticeable difference. I used to love Herbie's tenderfeet but with the Tonians, I had to take them out and just perch the gear directly on the maple shelves. It was just a bit too foggy with them. "
So frustrating to have equipment that is extremely finicky. You never enjoy the music because there is always contamination of the source audio from almost every extraneous factor.
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I was once challenged to a karate fight. It was to take place on The Amazing Randi's big yatch which was going to be where the James Randi Education Fiundation (cough, cough) was having its retreat that year down in the Caribbean. I gracefully declined the invitation and suggested a stalker of mine go in my stead.
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@shadorne
I agree. Cables do kinda sound very, very slightly different, but I firmly believe if your rig requires magic hocus pocus cables to sound right, your major components probably just suck and you should probably just buy gear that sounds the way you want without stupidly expensive cables. |
@shadorne & @kosst_amojan,
You two can be the next Abbott & Costello and should take it on the road.
Please, and make it a couple of years while you're at it. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise |
@nonoise
Mind explaining to the crowd what the grand virtue is in buying into the snake oil? |
kosst_amojan
Why on earth would I advocate a position based on a premise that I don't believe in? |
Costello: Well, all I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base?
Abbott: Oh, no, no. What is on second base.
Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.
Abbott: Who's on first!
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@nonoise
You are very clever. Great rebuttal. I still haven't got an anwer why some folks prefer the sound of fuses and wires over the faithful reproduction of the source! |
@shadorne
The way I see (hear) it is that no component, in and of itself, is a faithful reproducer of music. They are what the designers think they should be, researched and developed in house with ancillary equipment they have on hand such as sources, speakers, cables, etc. They all fine tune it to what sounds best and hope it's good enough for everyone else.
Anyone who's been to a manufacturers place and been in one of their listening rooms is privy to what they use for playback purposes. They usually have a few different speakers, sources and what cabling they like. It's fairly representative of what's out there but it's hardly extant.
Having said that, the place I visited was a famous brand name with a higher end brand that is very well respected and very costly and all they used for cabling was the cheap crap that comes with a $50 DVD player. I couldn't believe it but I certainly heard it. $5K amp driving $7K speakers with generic cabling and it sounded like crap. The guy went on about the sound and how superior the drivers were and all I could think of was did he drink his lunch? I still bought the unit I came for since I got it for half off and when I got home, it sounded so much better in my system which retailed for about 1/6 the cost.
Now can anyone claim that what I heard at the costly name brand factory was faithfully reproducing the source? Simply replacing those red, white and black cheap as hell ICs and zip cord speaker cable would have woke that system up. I've heard that gear at audio shows with better cabling and it can really sing. Sometimes, tweaking can not only fine tune a system but make up for cheap, cost cutting steps made along the way.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@nonoise
Pal, you're just plain old fashioned lying. It's your fertile imagination at work. And that's my problem with your whole argument. It's just what you believe and absolutely nothing else. You can't back it up with measurements. You claim you were at some big name high end manufacturer. Did you see the mountains of measurement gear they use to hone the sound of the amp? You think they're just making ballpark guesses for Mass production models? You have to measure the hell out of it. The measurements are what make the sound. And you're claims about cables don't support what measurements reveal. |
When it comes down to brass tacks don’t we all buy into the notion that brand ABC’s box of over-hyped and absurdly expensive box of wires is better than brand XYZ’s brand of over-hyped and absurdly expensive box of wires? I think it does not just stop being ridiculous with wires and cables, it easily extends into the audio equipment we buy.
I cannot say I enjoy my ridiculously expensive stereo more than the kid down the block who listens to all his music on an older smartphone and I really would have a hard time justifying the higher price I paid for my audio adventure.
What’s even more embarrassing? The banter and fighting back and forth, “I have better audio equipment and am smarter about high fidelity than that other guy” That always makes me laugh!
BTW the smart guys are the ones making all the hi-fi equipment and selling it for huge sums of $$$$.... not the ones buying it. |
Are we to believe that Kosst- F5 clone amp and shadorne - Benchmark DAC3 are the only components with perfect measurements and rest of the components in the world are being put together without any measurements 😉
Seriously guys, what is your end game? |
kosst, you're just so full of it my friend. The conclusions you arrive at never cease to amaze me. You read what you want and infer what's not implied so you can have that tired old soapbox to stand and scream and your sad little head off.
Someday you're going to make a shrink a rich man. You'd best confront those demons before they prepare the padded room for you.
All the best,
Nonoise
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There you go..again, nonoise resorts to personal insults as a way to stay, he thinks, relevant in the conversation.
Can we all agree, please, not to do this? |
@dynaquest4,
You seem to be way too emotional about our discussion here. If it pains you that much, feel free to "unfollow" this thread.
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@lalitk
There you go just making up crap nobody ever said spiced with idiotic insinuations of your own invention.
@nonoise
You never actually debate my statements. You just call me and my statements stupid and rant like a nutjob. You've got nothing but your silly claims of hearing things like some schizophrenic.
Just so we're clear, cables do sound very, very slightly different, they do NOT burn in, and you CAN measure them. Anyone saying different is just lying, scamming, or nuts.
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@dynaquest4, again being rather selective in your criticism. If you noticed, I replied in kind. Stop being such a toadie for others.
@kosst, now you're down to the I"m rubber, you're glue school of debate? Your rants don't address what I say, only what the voices in your head say I said. Could it be that you're used to silencing people with a glare or by your barking? That you hate it when someone stands their ground? The overwhelming majority of people here know that cables make a difference and they smartly stay out of these kinds of discussions because of people like you. They probably wonder why I respond as well.
Get used to people standing up to you. It's called life.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Nonoise calls me a "toadie" because I chastise him for name calling. Seriously? Are we still in fourth grade? |
Apparently your comprehension skills are at that level. Tell me, where did you chastise kosst who started this? That, dear dyna, is a toadie.
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dynaquest4 > Please try to pre-think your responses and attempt to be succinct and concise enough that others here will actually read what you have to say. 🐑 🚶🏻🏃🏻🚶🏻🚶🏻
blindjim >
@dynaquest4 > Wait! What? are we running out of server space?
. No one told me. Sorry. Should we chip in to add more? You start, everyone else will follow your lead.
Its hard to let go of the playground or your vision of it, ain’t it?
By your own admission you chose not to read my post. So you have nothing to base your objections to apart from its duration and unremarkable suppositions?
Hmmm. How cordial. I would have used imogees were I able.
I communicate. I don’t grunt. Cheer on. Backslap. Nudge. Or leave much to conjecture whenever I post. At least I try not to. Why? It saves me and others time for explanations after the fact.
Neither do I expect anyone to read what I write. Albeit, some may. If just one person finds my input helpful, then outstanding!!! ,
I also tend to enjoy adding when possible, or appropriate some humor along the way.
In your case, it seems to fall on self imposed deafened ears and or blinded eyes.
OK. I apologize. I was unaware you were the forum spokesperson. The consciousness of mankind. That any attempt to communicate MUST adhere to what makes sense to you, and in some unknown crieterium of exceptional brevity so you can ignore something quicker.
My bad.
OMG! You don’t even know me. Know nothing at all about me I would think. Yet you demonstrate an obvious bias based on some fantastic unsubstantiated, known only to you, possible heresay, characteristics people must follow to gain your blessings?
If you can not maintain a train of thought long enough, or tolerate sufficiently a disposition apart from your own, the world you live in will forever frustrate you. that’s too bad.
I don’t roll with the ‘plus 1s’, the ‘absoutely’ or the ‘yeah, right on’ crowd. That jazz is sheer fraternal good ol’ boy back slappin’ cliquish drama. It fosters no positive outcome to a conversation, debate, contention, agreement or argument. It merely separates the fold. Culls the heard derisively.
Mostly though it signifies a closed mind, or a groundlessly and likely erroneously prejudiced one. Again,that’s too bad.
If you are unable to agree or disagree with grace, and demonstrate some maturity and open mindedness, perhaps these forums are not for your temperament.
But, again, I sincerely apologize if my benign discourse aimed solely on the topic or response to another’s post, upsets you. or any others.
Keep holding onto the idea of ‘succinct brief ambiguity and watch as this culture and others devolve as many have in the last twenty years or so. And everyone wonders why there is so much anger. Acrimony. Grief and misgivings.
Communication. Its communication or its absence. No one wants to know where anyone else is really coming from any more. We just suspect, project, or claim we know but we don’t because we’ve lost the ability to communicate and tolerate. Understand And empathize.
If you’re gonna express your thoughts. Please…. Express them as well as you are able. Always.
taras22> brilliant and much much fun....
blindjim > @taras22…. thank you.
so… you’re the one who read my post, it seems now, you are the last of a dying breed!! Lol
= = == = =
Sorry, I must digress to this thread’s orig topic….
I like the idea of mixing and matching cables in the loom to fit better the component they are attached to, or to improve upon the synergy of the whole system.
Sometimes with wires, it is nothing more than a hunch or WAG as to how they get into the mix.
As for same same across the board, I’ve yet to find one brand and model of cable which has everything and does everything exceptionally well.
So it always ends up being some sort of conglomeration of various brands and models of wires and cords..
well, so far anyhow.
As for deletions or removals of post, maybe its just filters. Certain words. Phrases. Maybe too Admin is tired of some folks forgetting free speech doesn’t mean you can say anything at all and is attempting to remind people about that side of the coin.
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Let's see....
Nonoise goes full-on stupid, Dynaquest4 makes sense as usual, and blindjim is still working on his novel.
Still no actual sensible response from nonoise or lalitk. |
@kosst_amojan,
I have asked, what is your end game? If you don’t believe that a cable makes audible difference then why do you keep showing up on these cable threads with same futile arguments?
Just look back at every cable thread you tread on...what have you gained by dissing folks that are pro aftermarket cables or other tweaks. |
@lalitk
Are you blind or just stupid? Here's exactly what I posted just 2 hours ago...
"Just so we're clear, cables do sound very, very slightly different, they do NOT burn in, and you CAN measure them. Anyone saying different is just lying, scamming, or nuts."
How exactly do you get "they make no difference" out of that rather declarative statement?
My end game is to dispell the snake oil and myths a click of you are obsessed with bringing to the table. I'm here to demand you prove your silly claims with more evidence than "I hear it". |
clique, not click
maybe call the group CCP (for Cable Clown Posse) |
Thank you, Randy. I stand corrected. Just getting off work and in a hurry. I like the nickname!
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@randy-11
Thanks.
> clique, not click
> maybe call the group CCP (for Cable Clown Posse)
blindjim > auto correct got me there. Sorry.
CCP works. However, Having to spell out posse could be an issue to if not very, very careful. Adding one more ‘C’ opens another bag of annelids.
Gee. That’s gotta qualify as succinct.
I’ll make a footnote of it in my novel’s first volume. I’m trying to be good, but its so difficult dealing with so much ADD and mindless free floating disjointed spam.
To review:
Mix up the wires! It’s better!
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Well now, we certainly got off track. Bickering, insults etc. Is that what this forum is all about? Can'T we just share our own experiences and call it a day?
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