Please Read and express your feelings and opinions....


I noticed  that lately or maybe for the last five yrs, there is so much arguments,name calling, attacking cables , speakers , components makers and more, more of disagreement with members, even Audio dealers are being attack here...Very few know how to apologize when they are wrong.What can we do as Audiogon members to improve our communication to each other? How to give the informations, recommendation to members who need it? This is without involving Audiogon, any opinion or ideas ,  For me this is fun and place to learn in audio...thank you all
128x128jayctoy

Showing 2 responses by minorl

My opinions.  Some people are trolls that hide behind the security of the internet and therefore, they can say what they want or insult whomever they want with impunity.  There is really no recourse for them.  No penalty, or pushback.  Rudeness resounds in this country (USA) and has for the last 10 years or so.  don't get me started.  Rude, obnoxious people crawled our from under whatever rocks they were hiding under and decided that it was now okay to insult whomever.  Mostly from a very strong sense of entitlement and superiority.

They were never called out for it.

But, if they were to say such things to your face, there very well might be a fight.

Opinions vary, but that is all they are, opinions. Fuses??? what ever makes you happy. Audio Research bashing?  that just makes no sense to me.

I have no problem with healthy discussions and even heightened expressions of opinions.  I do however have a problem with rude people and bullies.  People that refuse to get in line and decide to cut lines, either standing or in traffic.  People that insult because you don't follow their viewpoint.  Religious, etc.  people that try to push others around.

this is a forum about the high end of audio.  I also am into restorations of classic cars and I can tell you that the Mopar crowd vs the Corvette Crowd, vs the Porsche crowd??? oh boy.  you talk about insults and heated arguments.  wow.  And they do it to your face.

but it all comes down to basic selfishness in my opinion. Certain people feel that their opinion is the only one that matters and that because they feel they are right, then everyone else must be wrong.

I learned a long, long time ago, that there can be more than one "right".  Many people have not cared to learn this valuable lesson.

I had a conversation a few minutes ago with a female friend and she outlined her opinion that if she felt someone was rude to her then they were rude period.  I explained that it may be cultural differences and that the person may not be rude at all, but just because you "felt" someone was rude, doesn't mean that they actually were.  I couldn't budge her opinion one bit.  "Oh no, if I feel that person is rude, then to me they are."  Really?  I said.  What if you were wrong?  "how could I be wrong when I felt they were rude?" circular conversation.    The example of people from New York came up. How many feel that people from New York are rude.  I explained that in my opinion, based on my trips there, no one I met was rude.  They were simply always in a constant state of hurry.  They had things to do and places to go and didn't have time to sit around chit chatting. waiting for slow people to make up their minds.  So, they were trying to rush things along.  Some feel they are rude.  but to me they weren't.  In New York it is considered rude to have eye contact.  But in LA, not establishing eye contact makes you weak, rude and definitely a target.  Different place, different attitudes.

I believe in respect.  Rude people, especially children should be set straight.  otherwise they feel that it is okay to do or say whatever.  parents that let their children act out in public, well, I understand whey children grow up being rude.   Well, it is not okay and they should be called out for it.  However, one first has to be very, very clear as to whether that person is rude.

I have seen many examples here of extremely rude people participating in forums.  No way would they have the same conversation face to face.

In closing, if you see rude, call them out on it.

Healthy disagreements are one thing. Rudeness quite the other.

But I'll tell you one thing. I've disagreed with people about high end equipment.  But, when you put us in the same room doing A/B comparisons for that equipment, we ultimately hear the same things and agree. 

enjoy

We have sort of gotten off track from the original intent of the message, which I have already responded to.  No, I don't that anyone other than the manager of the site should have veto power and delete anyone's posts.  All that would happen as a result would be posters deleting contrary viewpoints.

Again, rude behavior should be addressed.  Differences of opinion, (and yes, most times, it comes down to opinions).  If it isn't provable by confirmed science technology and standards and isn't accepted scientifically, it is opinion.

Now before you all take my head off, pray indulge me  Any device, fuse, transistor, resistor, circuit, capacitor, tube,etc. that is placed in the signal path will affect the signal.  But there are technical reasons behind this.  I don't begrudge people for not getting engineering or technical degrees, but this really comes down to what is scientific fact and other's opinion. Either you know what you are talking about or you don't and it is opinion.

Take for example fuses. This is a long standing argument. But, if that fuse is in the signal path, then yes, it will have an impact.  Current, voltage, VA rating, impact the signal.  also, impedance is quite important.

To simply throw one's hands up and say it doesn't have an impact is irresponsible.  If the device is constructed such that under normal or extreme loads the voltage doesn't dip and the current carrying capability is handled by the device and the impedance does not change. Then no, it will not impact the signal. If, however, those do change, then it will impact the signal. This is engineering 101.

If a person tells me that changing the fuse made a noticeable difference in sound quality, I guarantee you there is a technical explanation.

But, there had better be a A/B comparison and the circumstances must be exactly the same to make such a claim.

Same with listening to pre-amps, speakers, amps, etc. Did you set and write down the volume level and make sure they were matched first? If you changed any other component during this evaluation, then is was not a fair A/B comparison.

Soundstage??? come on people.  First how was the recording done in the first place? On some digital recordings going straight to a mixing board there isn't a sound stage in the first place.  The engineer may put an artificial one in, but that is what it is. If, however, the engineer knew his/her stuff, the proper mike placement and use is paramount. Proper equipment, etc.  The only real way to know for sure is for the engineer to hear the play back and make that determination.  The rest of us weren't in the room and your playback equipment may have been designed to insert artificial characteristics into the sound.

The reasons why some things aren't scientifically tested or proven is quite simple.  They are not cost effective to do so.  Who is the audience?  Will I recover my costs if I come up with the scientific technique?  In the case of audio, the answer is NO.  Of course scientist and engineers can come up with the test and methodology.  There is simply no real reason for them to do so here.  If there was mass market, military, or large consumer implications, then they would be all over this.  This is a technical universe.  Of course it can be done.  There is at this time no real justifiable reason for anyone to take the time and great expense to do so, to simply satisfy a few high enders.

Autos are different.  the technology trickles down from extreme super cars to mass market cars.  GPS tracking was/is military based.  But, look at most car adds today.  It isn't the car most are selling, it is the new/latest and greatest electronic bells and whistles.  This won't fly for mass market audio (at least I don't think it will).  Most non-audiophiles listen to music as background music.  They couldn't care less about soundstage and dimensionality, etc.

Just my two cents worth.  However, I don't like rudeness in any form.  I agree that must be called out and stopped.  We can disagree and have rational discussions, but to call names, and add insults, well.  That's another story.

enjoy please