Inpeices;
Because Brizon keeps dragging this out after he calls his friend who knows about speakers. It be nice if he would just come out and say what he has to say.
He keeps ducking in and of this technical to neophyte wording which likely means he's calling a friend to help him because his concepts are correct but his symantics are NOT TO THE LEVEL OF HIS ARGUMENT, so my hostility is to his wasting my time. But then again I am sitting for my nephews so I'll waste his.
"I have sign have a slight rise in anachoic conditions which equates to a treble peak in real life when reverbation in a real listening room is considered."
Sign? And you can't have recent ATC anechoic measurements you BS fabricator.
Treble lift, so PMC puts a dip in their response to anticpate this? My opinion of PMC's design team is slowly sliding down the respect scale due to your rhetoric(maybe you'd like to disclose the frequencies this phenomena effects typically) in room versus anechoic behaviour, is highly dependent on room acoustics as is bass lift which can be an enemy of a T-Line as most rooms will add gain significantly below 40 HZ, you don't want a speaker flat to 20hz because it will end up +12dB. So it doesn't make much sense PMC would compensate for treble lift and ignore room gain? But in my room measurements show no lift except a tinge around 14khz but I don't know if that's the tweeters normal response in the treble in fact it is the tweeter which rolls off at about 12dB/octave starting at 16khz that mainly gives us the +/-1 variable. But that is likely due to the diffusive room treatments I have. So we go along, your experience versus mine. IF you're in the UK maybe its the humidity that's making the difference?
It be nice to see how the PMC mid stacks up against the ATC mid in 2005, call your friend and have him serve up the data, I'll get some from ATC. The last time I compared it was 2001 and the PMC was slower but appeared to be slightly better damped which will make it smoother sounding. But you already know that, well maybe you don't because you said impulse response was irrelevant. The MB2's were more dynamic (bass) but not as coherent as the ATC's. Most of my PMC experience recently has been with the more ordinarily priced speakers so forgive me for talking about a 4 year old memory but I did have them in my house for a month or so, I think I got the best out of them and their best was absolutely outstanding.
BTW Voicing is not a scientific term its a term used by speaker designers who can't get right so they fudge or change their speaker so they can sell it. I'm a salesman so I know these things. Do you have an issue with the 4th order crossover used by ATC, personally the integration on my 150's is flawless, not ripple to be heard not a ripple to be seen, the mid does have a little bump but that could be mic positioning and the like. Maybe you info is flawed? I know what I hear and the 150's play all my CD's just fine no glare or harshness a little more forward when played in two channel but I listen in trifield so that isn't a problem
Sharp is not a technical term, sharp is caused by distortion whether it is amplitude or unwanted modulation. maybe you guys talk that way over there, like bonnet etc. So we may have a semantics problem.
Your comments on T-Lines, they load the room better is technical?, is incorrect unless you mean easily more boomy. they do not present stiffer impedance than a sealed box it acts just like a sealed box over most of its frequency. 2pi loading is better and more manageable in room it creates the least modal problems, what were you talking about, what does your research show Brizon? Most of the superiority is not proven its opinion and its superior for the application those designers intend, I prefer to use subwoofer where you have T-line output, so for every positive there is a negative, my opinion I like sealed boxes the best with impedance correction, I build my subs that way and for domestic use I try to only get my speakers flat to 50 hz because bass and midrange need to be in seperate places to "load" the room properly. I use a T-line type cavity to remove the resonant energy from the cone in one of my designs , but having air coming out of a tube is one more variable I do not welcome, . See we have different philosophy's maybe we can compare speaker designs?
See we are talking about ATC and PMC, neither of which have text book loading, but I don't need to tell you that which is why they outperform the more pedestrian offerrings from other companies. To lump ATC with B&W just shows you have an axe to grind and objectivity is beyond your R&D mentality, you should throw PMC in there to then with B&W, because all they have done is shined up pro models for home use and how about those Bryston amplifiers, I guess they're a bunch of sell outs too like ATC. You act like PMC is so different, but I don't see it and you have this attitude like you're fighting uphill against the industry leader (like I do, carrying PMC, Meyer, DALI, Blue Sky and ATC does not make you the most popular dealer, trust me) like ATC as if they don't deserve it. But the fact is JBL is probably the industry leader and ATC and PMC are in the same fight against them.
Your supositions based on incorrect second hand knowledge about what ATC is trying to do are not facts to rebbutle they are just some time wasting topic spinning BS you made up. The things you discuss do not relate to the 50's,100's and 150's. 7's 12's 35's yes.
BTW go to www.theavarchitect.com and you can see my 150's now one thing I didn't think of was that they were specially built for an AES Sony SACD demo, so maybe they differ from the run of the mill 150? That I do not know. But the 50's I have measured seemed similar through the treble and were tocu analytical due to the lack of bass afforded by the 100's and 150's.
Usually I'm not discussing two excellent speaker systems because a person smart enough to buy PMC respects the ATC, which I think I had to drag out of you under one of your pretenses that the ATC's 50,100.150's are desk monitors...Whatever. You are different and in the end you are the one who is the salesman but you won't disclose it.
Whoever you look to for guidance in what makes a superior speaker differs from mine in their philosophy. And that's ok.
Like I said I wanted you to temper you comments and you did, maybe in the UK? ATC is a big dog marketing driven company, but here in the US it is much different.
"You have no idea how much R&D I have done thank you," well saying that means nothing to me why not say I have 20 years R&D experience? When it comes to audio I KNOW you have little experience or it was wasted experience while you got paid for it, or you have been unfair in dragging this out.
Later,