you can test to see if it is a placebo effect or not - use best imaged recordings (or your most difficult ones...)
I would explore use of an isolation transformer
but if noise is the problem it is likely not in the AC line (despite the huge $$ some spend on that) - more likely it is in the components themselves (if not in fl lights, CFLs, and maybe some cheap LED bulbs)
eventually, I expect audiophiles will install solar panels and run components off of straight DC... |
"
eventually, I expect audiophiles will install solar panels and run components off of straight DC..."
I don't see that happening. Electric eel power re-generators sound way better than solar.
|
If you want a Power conditioner which will perform well above any Audiophile grade Gimicks, look at the Reconditioned Version of the Elgar 3006B 3000 Watts Lab Grade Conditioner. This is approx. 20 years old reconditioned unit still faster then the fastest power conditioner built today. Ralph Karsten at Atma-Sphere reconditioned them and resells them off.
You wont find anything to best this under 30K, the price they go for about 4000-5000K fully re-conditioned to work for the next 10 years.
|
Which PSA power cable are you using? Usually 12 gauge is sufficient for a component like your Rogue preamp.
You may not be experiencing a placebo effect due to the fact that an aftermarket PC such as PS Audio will have a sonic signature just like each manufacturer’s interconnects or speaker cables. Compared to a cheap stock PC, you probably will hear a difference.
A well designed PC will use a high quality conductor, shielding, etc. and lower the noise floor. However, since you are using a PSA receptacle and a power conditioner, it’s hard to say how much your cable is contributing to the overall sonics.
Part of upgrading your power conditioning should include the installation of a dedicated AC line to the circuit box.
|
lowrider57,
I have the PSA AC3
I am considering the dedicated line. Do people usually run the line on the outside of the house through conduit? My box is on the opposite end of the house of course. It is plausible to run it outside and then right through the wall?
Back to my original post, which was poorly worded, I think my power is pretty solid. I didn't have any real noticeable noise. I just put the Furman in because I wanted fault protection from electric storms here. We just had a lady and a horse killed by lightning last week and I think my state is in the top 3 for lightning strike deaths. So I got the Furman for nondestructive protection and just added a few more bucks to get a unit with voltage display and the filtering. So I would like to keep this unit in the mix. Not really trying to solve a particular problem just trying to build an economical yet solid power supply to my system and gain some SQ along the way.
My real question is with the Furman in the mix and it's stock fixed power cable to the wall am I wasting $$ adding PSA AC3 cables to my DAC and Amp from the Furman.
Like I said, I am pretty sure I got some sonic elegance with just the addition to the Pre. |
I believe you are benefiting from the PS cable. As I stated, with a quality PC vs. stock (I have owned a Rogue preamp so I know first hand), you’ll get better power delivery and lower noise.
My point is that different brands of cable have different sonic signatures;
eg, dynamics, imaging, neutral or coloured. You could audition PC’s by ordering from dealers with a return policy. I’ve tried many.
The Furman fixed PC is fine for low-current draw components. You'll benefit from audiophile PC's, but how much depends on the cable design and the type of component.
The amp should have a larger gauge cable and typically is not plugged into the conditioner, since it may restrict dynamics.
Re: dedicated line, you run the line inside the house through the wall and under the floor like any electrical. A licensed electrician must do the hook-up to the breakers.
Search the archives for "dedicated line." |
OK thanks Lowrider. I think if I do the power I could go a short distance outside the house and then into the crawl space.
Regarding the amp not being plugged into the PC. I have read that on here before. So do people just sacrifice the amp in case they get a surge?
|
|
Jbuhl
When I moved from a home with crappy power to one with good power, my PS Audio regenerator displayed steady voltage and low distortion. I ditched the regenerator and could not be happier.
If your power is clean as you have mentioned (measured?), then how about power outages, lightning, etc.? If all is good, then I would minimize what to throw at your system, but a dedicated circuit(s) is always good for other internal issues. If your power turns out to be crappy, create an "overall" plan of attack based on the circumstances. However, if you live in an apartment, for example, so you can't do much about it, then a fine conditioner may be a good solution.
Kenny |
I'm with Kenny - I had a power conditioner, but found things got much better with good power cables and a power distribution box that had no filtration - just a breaker for safety and some very good outlets on the back. I also plug the amp directly into the outlet, not the distribution box.
A dedicated line with MRI outlets across the board with good power cables into each component is one way to ensure there is little to no noise spread from one component to any other.
Good power cables will actually reduce the effect of digital equipment has on overall sound quality
If there is a thunderstorm - I power down and remove all plugs.
Very few conditioners protect against a ground strike, which actually are the more common occurrence and lifts the voltage potential of the ground and neutral wires to insane levels. So you think you are protected when in fact you are not
My neighbor had this happen and it wiped out everything that he thought was protected - than goodness for house insurance!
Regards - Steve
|
I myself previously used an Ayre filter plus an PS Audio regenerator. I also used Shunyata power cords. Several years ago I changed to Audioquest power cords as I found them much superior to Shunyata. I found that between the Ayre and Ps Audio power conditioners that certain audio products would work better in one verses the other. That one had to match the audio product to the power conditioner itself for best results. Possibly like finding the right phono preamp for a paticular cartridge I would imagine. A few months I traded the Ayre filter and Ps Audio regenerator for two Audioquest Niagra's 1000's. They are the $1000 strips. Now the overall audio reproduction is truly excellent overall. For the cost I can recommend using an Audioquest power cable-power conditioner combination fully. |
I have found that the "closer o the source" rule is quite relevant. I have used the PS Audio Premiere and Statement cables in the past and they go for vary reasonable prices now. I would recommend trying a Premiere on the source first, and if you like that try the same on the amp. These cables have silver wire in the mix and you will definitely notice the difference!!
|
I have a Furman power conditioner as well (Elite 15i), and was able to convert it so it could use a detachable power cord. It wasn't simple, but I could provide details if anyone's interested. |
A dedicated line with MRI outlets across the board with good power cables into each component is one way to ensure there is little to no noise spread from one component to any other.
What are "MRI outlets"? Does it make a difference to have them in at every point on the circuit, or just where the audio equipment is plugged in? |
I assume your interested in better sound, hence the reason for buying an aftermarket outlet. I just replaced my Furman with an Audioquest Niagara 1000. BIG difference!!! Now I know what they mean when the phrase "...It was like the window was wiped clean..." is used. |
Yes, the Audioquest Niagara 1000 is incredible. I am also using a second Niagara 100, plus 3 Audioquest power cords for my Martin/Logan SL-3 speakers. What a difference they make. The added response to the base reproduction is incredible. Simply a must for any speaker system utilizing a seperate powered subwoofer system inside the speaker itself. It's almost as adding a subwoofer system to my SL-3's. Or to any additional sybwoofer system itself. That is when one really can notice the added benefits of power cords and power conditioning. It would be impossible to ignore in any type of a comparison setup situation. One would know immediatly the differences. |
AsI far as I am concerned the cable from the wall to the power conditioner is not that important as long as it is at least the same gauge as the house wiring from the circuit breaker. After the conditioner to your components might benefit from an aftermarket power cable. |
Observed that using a ultra high gauge and quality Sablon QGC power cable from the wall outlet to the PSA Dectects and Quintets permits all the components to share in the benefits of that great cable. Also allows me to use more nimble and lighter weight Sablon and (outstanding and affordable) Power Conductor One cords from the PSA units to the components. Generally found use your best cables on the sources but it pays to experiment. Components' response to PCs varies. My house is about thirty years old but renovated with LED lighting throughout. With Goldmund and peer level electronics, my ear can be right on the drivers including the ribbon tweets and subs with zero detectable noise no matter whats on in the house. Music is alive, holographic yet solid, smooth and fatigue free. |
Thanks guys, great information.
I just cranked the volume almost to full and put my ear to the sub and tweeters. On the right channel I can hear a very faint noise. Reminds me of the sound of a very light rain on your rain jacket but from a distance. This sound is also detectable at a normal volume setting. :( The other thing is the voltage on the Furman always reads 125, solid. Always reads that unless the heater on my Quickmill espresso machine kicks on and then it drops to 123. Thats only on in the morning of course but she is a brute.
Do you guys ( < 1% chance of a female on here?) think the rain sound is coming from my amp?
John_g, I is interested in doing a power cable to the Furman mod. I thought about that when I looked at it. If its not to much trouble for you to post.
I am definitely going to get power cables to my DAC and Amp. Early next week I think I will run over to PS Audio and pick up a new Power Cable and test switching that back and forth from the Wall to the Furman.
I actually called Furman and their support person said that the linear line filter technology they use should not affect my amplification. The rest of the technology in that piece is all to do with protection, triggering other components on/off and display.
|
Correction on previous post. I am going to test the power connection from the amp to the wall vs amp to Furman PC. |
@John_G - re: What are "MRI outlets"? Does it make a difference to have them in at every point on the circuit, or just where the audio equipment is plugged in?
MRI Outlets are a step up from Hospital grade outlets - they have superior clamping and they have no magnetic parts. Take Five Audio sells a cryo'd version of the Pass and Seymour MRI outlet https://www.takefiveaudio.com/categories/214-pass-seymour-cryo-treated-15a20a-wall-outletsI use them in my wall outlet that the system plugs into and the outlets in my DIY audio distribution box They are simply a very good outlet - much like those offered by companies like Furutech, but significantly more affordable than the Furutech and Oyaide versions. I have not compared them to anything other than the normal outlets installed by builders. The are much better than a standard outlet. Regards - Steve |
Have you still talked any known cable provider? If no then ask them first. They will help you much better.
|
