Reference disc player...UDP 205 or Marantz?

I have been a Marantz person for years.  I have the sa11s1 and the 7s1.  Once the fuses were changed, they have been very musical and enjoyable players.  But its been years since I've changed my digital footprint.  And I' m too old for streaming, computer stuff, etc.  So I decided to buy a modified 805 from Dan Wright with all his bells and whistles.  I have dealt with Dan over many years and feel he does great work.  Well, the modified 805 has been more than I expected.    Its a step above,e even the 7s1.  I would recommend the mod to anyone who has an 805.  It takes the player to a whole other level.  Pick one up new or used and have Dan do his stuff.

@rudge   I believe you are referring to the Marantz SA8005?  If so, I concur as I have the Modwright version of that player as well and the sound./build quality is outstanding!

I'm reading this thread with great interest.  I just ordered an Oppo UDP 205.  After 40 years of doing this as a hobby I've come to two conclusions.  Money doesn't necessarily get you better sound and to that end, no matter who reviews what, trust your own ears above all.

I got sick of seeing all these major audiophile brands spend fortunes on advertising knowing somewhere along the way I'm actually paying for all of that.  I had Don Sachs build me an amp and pre amp.  They're not cheap by any means.  The combo cost me more than $5,000 but for what I got I consider these pieces a steal.  I'm having a pair of single driver speakers built using Common Sense Audio's Super AlNico 15" drivers.  The cabinets are being designed by Chris Stanfill who's training is in engineering and has a severe disdain for "snake oil".  Cabling is Duelund tinned copper in an oil cloth casing.  I made my own IC's and am running 16 ga direct from the binding posts to the terminals on the back of a loaner pair of KEF LS50s.  No bi wiring or jumpers needed.  I replaced AQ cables that cost 20x the price and the Duelunds kick the crap out of them in my opinion.

I applied the same philosophy I do to fine wine.  Any idiot can write a check.  It takes a great palate to find a truly stunning bottle of wine at a sane price.  Same goes for my ears and what sounds good to me.

....Money doesn't necessarily get you better sound and to that end, no matter who reviews what, trust your own ears above all.....

.....It takes a great palate to find a truly stunning bottle of wine at a sane price.....

+1

Although, money doesn't necessarily get you worse sound either.

Unfortunately, often is the case that money must at least be "fronted" in order to have an opportunity to trust your own ears.

Hifiman, you are correct, of course I am referring to the Marantz 8005. Old age is hell.  A good player made great by Dans mods.  For the money it plays beautiful music.

I agree with Hasmato. Most of your responders are oppo owners.  They never did ab testing for  both units. I have owned the oppo sonica dac for a week and returned the unit after a week.  I bought it because all the great reviews I have read. But I found my current Cambridge audio 850c is a better dac/cd player.

I have Demo the marantz reference line cd player several years ago when I was buying my sonus faber olympica iii. Its a great player. Its at a different league that oppo is in.  Go demo yourself, you will know.

Speakingof just cd player, marantz sa 14 will blow away the oppo.  No doubt.

Oppo is entry level of  good cd player, not a reference line of cd player.

I have a bdp105d with EVS mods on the 2 channel board and the sound is outstanding. The original unmodded unit sounds quite good for the price, but I eventually wanted better articulate bass and clarity throughout. The mod did just that. I also have an Audio Note 3.1 balanced tube dac that sounds better than the modded Oppo, but not by much. I have never heard the Marantz, but, for my money, I would go for the Oppo in home audition, and make your decision. The EVS mod was $700, which was a great price. I don’t know if Ric at EVS is modding the 205 though.
I have no, nor have I ever had any affiliation with Oppo, EVS or Marantz. 

One thing to keep in mind is if you have a standalone DAC, you may want to consider the 203 which  purports to be essentially the same circuit for CD as the 205 but without a built-in DAC. You can then run the 203 into your DAC. The 203 is less than half the price of the 205.

One of Oppo's real strengths is in the quality of it's drive mechanisms. Several high end companies purchase use licenses from Oppo  to use their drive mechanism in their ultra-high end players. In essence, that is what Modwright has done.

@pirius   If you are stating that Modwright is replacing the Marantz drive in its modded machines with an Oppo  drive I believe you are incorrect.  In fact, the quality of the Marantz drive and overall circuit layout is what Dan Wright found attractive, leading him to develop a mod for it.

It's not snobery rather opinion based on experience I offer. I own the Marantz and Oppo 105 with some mods. The OPPO is a superb video player. The Marantz and OPPO sound different and are both nothing special as CD players. Expand your search. For example, you buy far better quality and performance machines  when you buy a used bel canto CD2, PL2 or PL-1 or Woo Audio transport and DAC.  I own them too. There are no doubt other better CD playback options. Experience based opinion and suggestions not snobery. All the best with your selection decisiion.. Namaste. 

I recently purchased the Oppo UDP-205 to use strictly for a modest SACD collection.  It does not decode HDCD which is disappointing, but I suppose it's to keep costs down.  A friend and I compared an Oppo BDP-95 with a Cambridge CXU with the Oppo UDP-205 for SACD and the 205 wins hands down.  On SACD it is superb.
However, I feel the 205 is sadly lacking in CD playback.  I presently use a Cambridge CXC transport and Benchmark DAC2 for CD's and am very impressed with the sound quality.  Probably the error correction on the transport makes a huge difference.
Am wondering if anyone else has experience with the Cambridge CXC transport and what DAC it is coupled with.

Firstgrowth...That's at the center of my question. Does oppo really live up to its hype, and can you really find a world beating disc player for such a low price?
Or is marantz still the better choice?

Gcp...you own the marantz 14s1?

I have been enjoying my PS Audio DirectStream DAC + transport, connected with an I2S (HDMI) cable and to my ears, the best digital I've ever heard.

I'm going to find out if it lives up to the hype.  I figure $1300 isn't crazy money and Oppo offers a 30 day money back policy.  If I hate it, it goes back.  If it's really really good I'll live with it for a while and see if I want to have it modded.

Sounds like the only way to do it, apart from getting opinions on here. 
Post something to let me know what you think. I may go the other way, and just get a pure sacd cd player because I already have a very good bluray player.

I'd like to know what you think, @firstgrowth .  @jonasandezekiel , I hope you take advantage of the return policy from Oppo and find a place to with the same return policy on the Marantz. I think think the only way to decide is to spend some time with both. I own the Oppo (-205) and have had it for a while. Once you get it - make sure to 'dive into' the settings. Mine came with 'Brick Wall' as filter; someone on a different thread corrected me and said it was not the default but more of a diagnostic filter. Whatever it is, it was on it when it was delivered from factory. I've listened to a bunch of the filters and I don't think there is a drastic difference between them; I've since moved away from the brick wall, and landed on a slow -something-filter. Another tip (though YMMV): I found the '100% output' very bright; I turned variable output on and set it at 90 and it was much more musical. I think the 'max output' seems to drive the output stage too much. I may very well be the combo of my pre-amp, hence "YMMV" :) Enjoy the journey....

I just unpacked it.  First impression (I have no idea if this thing has a burn in period.  I assume the DAC does.) is it's dead quiet and MUCH more detailed than the BDP-93 it's replacing.  Lots of space between instruments, timbre on voices and strings are excellent.  I'm playing Yo Yo Ma "Appalachian Journey" and it's like a new album to me.  

All this is through a Belles Aria integrated and a pair of KEF LS50s.  Once my Don Sachs equipment and my single driver speakers show up I'm sure there will be exponential improvement.

Enjoy.

I will be doing the same mods to the Oppo 205 as I do now to the Oppo Sonica DAC.  Should be ready in about 3-4 weeks.  Price is $800 plus for the mods. 

Who is doing your mods?

@jonasandezekiel - That reply was from Ric Schultz -  Electronic Visionary Systems (EVS). He's one of the long time mod'rs, previously manufactured audio products including a well regarded DAC. The website for Ric/EVS is www.tweakaudio.com. He's one of the good guys IHMO....

Ok....my mistake, thanks for letting me down easy and not letting me look too foolish. So, the cost of the mods are considerably more reasonable then for a ModWright mod.

Sounds tempting, as well as a little confusing. But I'm interested.

To clarify...the Oppo 105 does play DSD, but the Bryston BDA 3 is one of the few DACs that can take the DSD stream from an SACD, and Oppo is one of the few SACD players that can be configured to output it....both the 105 and 205

I think what Mahler123 meant to say was that the Oppo 105D does not stream DSD from external sources.  The 205 does.  If he truly thinks the Oppo 105D does not stream DSD from SACD disks, then he is overlooking a setting in setup that allows the user to chose whether of not to output DSD or convert to 192/24 PCM in the digital output.

In any case, the Oppo105D has very fine analog output especially beefed up for the stereo output jacks, so there is always that option.  To me it sounds better anyway.

@ haolunfan - Something not mentioned here is that all electronics (and cables) need burn in, typically 400-500 hours, i.e., about three weeks. If you are experienced and have good ears, you can tell a lot about a unit after about 24 hours, but soon after that, until roughly 300 hours in, the sound quality will be all over the place, often not very listenable, until it starts settling down.  

Both the Marantz 8005 and Oppo 203/205 are good, just have different functions. By concentrating on music, the Marantz isn't encumbered with the interference of video circuitry, which typically undermines the sound to some degree. If you want video in the same unit, then the Oppo is a very good player/dac combo, especially for the price. Good mods make it even better.

Highstream, I was actually considering the marantz 14s1 or the Oppo, but i understand your point.

A good buddy of mine, whose opinion I respect, highly recommends the Oppo, just on its specs alone. I'm thinking about getting off the pot, and just buying it. And if I don't like I can return it. 

I think my Oppo 103 sounds very good with my Krell integrated and Vandersteen 2Cs. I only use it for 2-ch audio. I like being able to play all disc formats. Service information is top-notch. The only downside is it's a little slow to respond to inputs from the remote. I'm planning to purchase the 205 based on owner's statements it sounds even better. Stereophile rates the 103 class B, the 105 class A.

Tom

Yeah, but I just can't get over the fact that it's a mid-fi priced disc player, and that it plays video too. It's almost a mantra that you can't get true reference two channel from a player that does video as well, so reasonably priced. Something doesn't seem right.

@ jonasandezekiel,
Why don't you try the Oppo 205? If you don't like it, you can return it and go with the Marantz.

@jonasandezekiel .... given your statement about it being a mid-fi price point, I think you should definitely go with another player. I bet the "what if" will constantly be in the back of your head, and that may not be a very enjoyable place to listen! 

Buy the 205 and also whatever else you think you might like. Compare them for up to 30 days (whatever the return period is) and return the one you like less.

Tom

@tomcarr
@jonasandezekeil

This is the best choice. I've owned a number of "mid-fi" CD  players and the Oppo 105 beats them all, including the Cambridge Audio 840C; and it wasn't even close for me. The Oppo was much better across the board. I have not heard the 205 yet but have read it is supposed to be a bit better. Please also realize that none of these players mentioned are reference.

I've heard the Marantz  SA-14S1. Though the word reference is used in the title, it is in no way reference. I have not heard the Marantz in my system, but it was pretty uninspiring in the Marten/Luxman system I auditioned it in a few months ago. The Marantz house sound, to me, is smooth but rolled off; no shimmer, sparkle, snap. Not for me. I've had two or three Marantz players; as a side note, all had to have the disc mechanism replaced.

@tomcarr, boneman, and pokey....

Interesting. Good comments, thanks for that. I like a warm sound, good midrange, but not rolled off highs. The Oppo sound might appeal to me after all, especially with my speakers. 

What the heck? I can always return it! I will report back, but I think I will take the plunge.

I re-read my comment and I'm afraid it may have come off as snarky! Not meant to be!!  Disclaimer: I own the -205 and love it! 

Looking forward to learning about what you hear, and what you decide to keep.

Tom

@boneman73, I love my 103 and have considered the 105, now the 205. Are you able to give me any advice on the sound quality improvement?
Thank you,

Tom

@tomcarr , I wish I could expound intelligently for you - but I can't. The 205 is my first Oppo. I'm comparing it to some older (albeit in that 'legendary' category) CD players with the Philips guts and DAC's, as well as a newer TASCAM, which sucked in comparison (but, I really didn't care nor give much credit to digital). I primarily listened to analog (LP and R2R) so digital took a back seat. Maybe the highest praise is that I'm listening more to my CD's, DVD-A and SACD's than ever - and every time it's like I've got a new album! I'm actually preferring most of the digitally recorded albums on shiny disc, more than a digital sourced LP. FWIW, I'm running balanced cables to my Jeff Rowland gear, feeding a pair of Tannoy's. Not exactly a "bright" system by any stretch. I find the sound very pleasant, engaging in the midrange, and completely non-fatiguing. Hope that helps. 

Boneman, thank you for your response and well-thought-out comments. Yes, I can get a feel for the sound based on what you've said. Glad to hear you are enjoying your silver discs so much. I'm pretty sure I'm going to love a 205.

Tom

@tomcarr - when you get it (I am sure I put this explanation farther up the thread...but I'll summarize again): back the output volume off in the settings to something else than 100%. I really thought it was harsh at 100. I have mine set at 90%. Break-In/Warm-up/whatever you want to call it 'was real' in this box. Definitely filled out the sound after a few hours. I supposed some fancy pink noise disc would probably be the best for that purpose. I used Beethoven's 9th symphony, on repeat, for a couple days (mostly because I wasn't there to listen to it).  I wish I could say the 5 or so digital filters (really, DAC processing algorithms) were drastically different...they seem extremely slight to me. I'm still 'playing' with the different ones. The 205 has been out long enough now (I got it in May?) that I bet there are plenty of opinions on the 'net on which one is best. I'll probably just pick one that "people like" and live with it for a while.
Enjoy!!

@tomcarr - when you get it (I am sure I put this explanation farther up the thread...but I'll summarize again): back the output volume off in the settings to something else than 100%. I really thought it was harsh at 100. I have mine set at 90%. Break-In/Warm-up/whatever you want to call it 'was real' in this box. Definitely filled out the sound after a few hours. I supposed some fancy pink noise disc would probably be the best for that purpose. I used Beethoven's 9th symphony, on repeat, for a couple days (mostly because I wasn't there to listen to it). I wish I could say the 5 or so digital filters (really, DAC processing algorithms) were drastically different...they seem extremely slight to me. I'm still 'playing' with the different ones. The 205 has been out long enough now (I got it in May?) that I bet there are plenty of opinions on the 'net on which one is best. I'll probably just pick one that "people like" and live with it for a while.
Enjoy!!

Just a heads up that when the UDP-205 was first released, each volume step off 100 equated to 1 db. A relatively recent firmware update modified that to .5 db per volume step.

As to the DAC filter setting, general consensus is that the default - mini phase fast - is "best". Of course this is merely a preference so YMMV.

Hi jonasandezekiel,

I haven’t heard any of the better Marantz players so I cannot give you any useful advice on how it compares to the Oppo 105 I have owned for the past 2 years. I won’t claim the Oppo is the best available since I’ve not auditioned many of the higher-end and expensive units either.
But I can tell you that the 105 is a very impressive and versatile player that I consider my personal reference player and, by all reports, the new 205 is at least as good audio wise and better video wise since it’s now 4K. I never thought I was buying ’the best’ but thought I was getting a very good performer that would do a lot of things very well. I reasoned that more expensive players would likely perform better in certain aspects but these improvements would probably would be marginal in nature and the large increase in price would need to be balanced against any perceived marginal increases in performance.
I agree with your view that someone’s personal reference component needs to be determined within the constraints of their budget.
I thought I was buying a very good Bluray player with an excellent audio section at a bargain price of $1,199. I’m very pleased to tell you that’s exactly what I got.
The Oppo’s most impressive qualities are its versatility and audio performance. I use the 105 as a preamp, 5.1 surround sound processor, stand alone dac for music streaming as well as a high quality video processor for Blurays and cable hdtv. The audio quality is so good in fact, that I sold my Parasound AV-2500 surround processor I used for 5.1 surround and my beloved VTL 2.5 preamp (with NOS Mullard tubes and ht bypass) that I used for 2-ch music playback. I never thought I’d remove the VTL from my system but, after extensive comparison of the sound with and without it in my system, I had to admit my music sounded just as sweet and dimensional using the 105 as a music preamp. This was especially hard to discover since I had just recently swapped in a new set of expensive NOS Mullard tubes in the VTL. The 105’s audio performance via its XLR and SE outputs is really that good; I had to be honest and trust my ears.
FYI- Oppo’s customer support is also very good and they helped me setup my computer audio system with my laptop running JRiver, a NAS and the Oppo as dac all communicating via my home wi-fi. The multiple Sabre 9018 dac chips in the Oppo are excellent, too, though I believe the 205 has the latest Sabre 9028 chips.

Hope this helped and best wishes,
Tim

@boneman73, Interesting, thank you!

Tom

A little late here but compared a black friday oppo udp-205 deal vs. my rega apollo cd player and the rega apollo (sub $1000 cd player) is a far superior cd player. I’m sure oppo does well in many ways but it was no comparison to dedicated rega cd player. I cannot speak for the Marantz SA-14S1 cd player but in my opinion there’s a lot of hype behind oppo's sound quality.   I would agree though oppo is very versatile but master of none.

Additionally, in my comparison with Sony’s ability to play the 4K movies vs oppo, the oppo udp-205 had slightly better movie image but could not justify the price tag vs the cheaper sony 4k (UBP‑X800 player $149 BF deal down from $299).  

2 channel set-up:
Rega apollo cd player
Mcintosh mc275 tube amp
Mcintosh c2300 pre-amp
Wilson Audio Sophia3

Additionally, in my comparison with Sony’s ability to play the 4K movies vs oppo, the oppo udp-205 had slightly better movie image but could not justify the price tag vs the cheaper sony 4k (UBP‑X800 player $149 BF deal down from $299).

Oppo UDP-205 could definitely justify the price difference.

Fact be told that video - just like audio - is an expensive hobby where subtle, marginal and incremental gains are indeed expensive.

I agree with your audio appraisal that it’s versatile but master of none (albeit it is no slouch in the audio department) but as far as video is concerned really nothing even remotely close to its price tag can beat it. Combine its video performance with very good (and in some circles extremely good) audio and the overall effectiveness is such that from a value perspective its impossible to beat (currently and in today’s market). If you’re happy/content with the $149 player that’s fine too.

     I consider the Oppo 105's  CD playback to be very good thanks to its overbuilt power supply with large toroidal transformer, separate and isolated CD playback circuitry and excellent Sabre 9018 and 9028 dac chips usually found in much more expensive players. 
     I believe its CD playback performance would fair very well in comparisons to a wide variety of CD only players from a wide variety of price points.
     However, I think it's important to point out a few facts that readers of this thread should keep in mind, especially when comparisons are made to components that are much less versatile such as the Rega Apollo CD player which can only playback redbook CDs.
     The Oppo 105 and the current 205 are 'virtual Swiss army knives'.  They are both primarily high quality Blu-ray players with impressive video processors, HDMI connectivity and surround sound processors with up to 7.1 channel decoding to analog audio outputs.  They both are able to play back virtually any silver disc: CDS, SACDs, DVDs, DVD-As and even CD-Rs.  They both can be used to stream high resolution audio files (up to and including DSD) either via hard-wire or wireless connections through their very good internal Sabre dacs.  External hard drive storage units can be connected to store ripped CDs and downloaded hi-res music files.
     Just something to keep in mind when comparisons between these Oppos and less versatile  players are made.  Others may dismiss this extreme versatility with comments such as "Jack of all trades, but master of none". 
     After using the Oppo 105 for about 2 years, however, the original unshortened quote seems more appropriate to me:

    “A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

Tim  

Oppo does not play SACD-Rs ( DVD or USB stick with ,iSO on it or via DLNA) due to copyright restrictiions, but does play DSFs "cut" from SACD-R,

     " Oppo does not play SACD-Rs ( DVD or USB stick with ,iSO on it or via DLNA) due to copyright restrictiions, but does play DSFs "cut" from SACD-R, "

     Thank you for your correction, mikhaelkuz.  My mistake.  I was referencing my 105's owners manual and did not realize this functionality had been retracted.   I've never had the need or desire to use or verify these specific capabilities. 
     I'm thinking Oppo likely was compelled to limit the 105's  abilities via subsequent firmware updates due to possible legal exposure.
     Regardless, I still consider the Oppo 105 and 205 high quality and versatile audio devices that also offer exceptional video quality at a reasonable price.
     I agree with the suggestion that jonasandezekiel is best served by buying a 205 and deciding for himself.

Thanks,
  Tim

HI,

I read through this thread this morning and decided to chime in.

My system is Prima Luna Dialogue Preamp, Coda amp, and Thiel CS5 speakers.

The Thiels are demanding and need a lot of articulated detail to avoid hiss and sibilance. 

I used an Audio Space CD8  player that provided a lot of presence and liveliness but with a bit of hash on the very high end.

I read about the Oppo and bought the 105 when it first came out. It was an improvement because it reduced the sibilance.

Then I got the full upgrade from Ric Schultz at EVA and that was another improvement - more refinement and detail. The sound stage is wider than the speakers and the depth is there if it is on the recording. It still can be difficult to pick exact voices or instruments on some complicated mixes.

Ultimately, I would describe the Ric Schultz modified Oppo sound as a bit polite in my system.

I have listened to a Marantz 8004 in my system and thought it had more base than the Oppo but not quite the same smoothness.

Dsper

The combination Marantz Reference PM-11S3 integrated amp and Marantz Reference SA-11S3 sacd/cd player is the biggest bang for your dollar. Tremendous value in what you get in return. If sound , build and great quality matters this is the way to go for your money.