Silent Running Audio vs Minus-K under tube amps

I can't speak for Grand Prix Audio, but my understanding is that carbon fiber under audio components does not isolate per se, but rather, changes the frequency at which an items resonates. This is why carbon fiber works spectacularly well with some gear and can make things worse for others. I have Black Diamond Racing carbon-fiber shelves under my turntable and CD player, and they improve the performance of each.

Coincidentally, I have Silent Running Audio Ohio-Class bases under both my darTZeel transistor amp and VAC Renaissance tube amp -- Ohio-Class bases are custom-made based upon the particulars of each amp. They did not replace any other bases, so I am not able to make comparisons.

I was planning to continue using the Grand Prix Audio amp stands and add either the Silent Running Audio bases or the Minus-K platform under the amps. Regardless of the base it seems like there will be air-borne vibrations that will affect the amps. Will the Silent Running Audio bases "drain" that energy better than a scientific isolation platform?

Most isolation platforms are made for scientific applications and the manufacturers suggest that users of the platform shield the platform from high frequency air-borne sound energy for optimal results (for the use of the platform with scanning electron microscopes and such). Good luck trying to do that in a listening room.

Hi Bomer,

what did you have prior under your table before getting the Minus K?

I also have a Minus K (custom made one) undernieth my TW Acustic Raven AC3 none suspended table.

Under my mono blocks I actually have Sistrum platforms, there is allot of info. in relation to these and what they offer both for tube and solid state, I like them and haven't looked for others.

I had my turntable (Nottingham Dais) on a wall mount. The mounts (beefy L-brackets) are bolted to studs that extend to a support beam under the house. A Plexiglass shelf rests on small bolts (that allow for leveling of the shelf) that extend upward from the L-brackets. A Grand Prix Audio Formula carbon shelf rests on the plexiglass shelf with three sorbothane pucks in between the two shelves. The turntable was on the Grand Prix shelf.

When I got the Minus-K I just slipped it in between the turntable and the existing wall mount/shelf system (sounds easy....wasn't).

What size is your Minus K?

Mine is BM-8 and it 28.5" x 21" x 4.5" larger than any of the standard units, also has a much greater payload weight range, 110lbs-175lbs.

My AC3 fits nicely on it.

Mine is the standard BM-8. 20" x 18" x 4.5" with a 50lbs-105lbs payload range.

Correction: I actually put the Minus-K in between the plexiglass shelf and the Grand Prix Audio shelf on the existing wall mount. So the turntable is resting on the Grand Prix Audio formula shelf which then sits on the Minus-K.

I'm not a scientist and can't respond to your question. All I can add is that one or more of the principals of Silent Running Audio allegedly (I emphasize "allegedly") used to supply isolation technology for navigational instrumentation employed in the U.S. nuclear submarine program and in this regard, were either employed by or consulted for Electric Boat. This could be typical two-channel hi-fi bullshit, but it's worth mentioning that Lamm recommends Ohio-Class bases under it's $130K monoblocks (and other elite manufacturers like Tenor recommend them). I should add that the name "Ohio-class" refers to the largest known SLBM-carrying nuclear submarines in the U.S. fleet.

The Silent Running bases for amplifiers are some of the best we have seen.

Here's something that might interest you;

With a turn table on top of a SR Ohio base placed on a audio stand, while the needle is on the record; taping the actual stands pillars and other parts or the actual platform could hear the noise clearly threw the speakers.

Using a Symposium Ultra platform did th same thing and could still hear it clearly but more of a thud sound.

Using the Minus K, absolutely nothing ZERO!

That was very interesting indeed.

Sweet.

Hi Atmasphere, I would also think that this would greatly benifit any tube gear placed on top also, I was pleasantly surprised with my findings.

Your thoughts in relation to this.

I guess my worry with placing amps on complete isolation stands is the thought that very few amps are "voiced" on isolation stands. It seems that amp designers will create a amp and then "tweak" the circuit/materials with listening tests to get the final design. It would not be surprising if Lamm uses SRA bases for his final testing of his amps (though I have read that he designs amps by theory and less by listening) and therefore would know that optimal performance of the amp can be reached using a specific base.

Some folks on Audiogon have commented on other threads that they prefer certain passive stands over active isolation stands for amps (the sound can be less 'lively' with active isolation). Perhaps whatever vibrations (or micro-vibrations) that are getting into the amps are "helping" the overall sound of the amp.

I replicated Dev's "tapping" experiment with my turntable and Minus-K platform. I have the same results as Dev

The Minus-K is an amazing piece of equipment. Turntables clearly benefit from isolation (perhaps almost complete isolation). I would love to be able to "audition" a Minus-K under each tube amp prior to purchase.....but that can't happen

It is impossible to mechanically over-damp audio equipment (I am not talking about electrical damping).

If you are of the opinion that this is not the case, then its likely that you are used to dealing with synergistic effects which is usually not a good way to set up a system.

Now it is possible to put so much damping product on a tube that you can damage the tube by overheating it, but this is an issue of heat rather than damping.

Let's say you are compensating for a brightness by using dull equipment elsewhere. The result may be an even tonality, but one that is lacking transparency and detail. You are much better off if the equipment stands on its own merits and lacks coloration on its own.

This is why a good stand for amplifiers or for the front end of the system is a good idea- the less vibration you have, the greater the ease that the gear can realize its musical potential.