Owned Theil 3.5s; never liked bass booster/ equalizer. Definitely more transparent w/o it. Straight ahead, 8-11' away, 200-300watts SS and they will sing! Kathy wrote me that warranty was at its end as she sent last midrange driver. Sold them; Went through ProAc, Wilson then ended with Avalon
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Final note why I was sad to part w/ 3.5s.Had midrange " to die for " |
This thread has been great. I have always missed my 3.5s. I blew Many tweeter and midrange drivers. That's why I sold them. Has anyone else had this problem? I wonder if the new owners will be able to provide matching drivers to original specs for 3.5s that are long out of warranty and at what cost? Thiel 3.5s were truly Reference Speakers. |
I used a pair of Forte model 7 monos to drive the Thiel 3.5s (75w - pure class A ( Still have them; wonderful sounding amps.) Then switched to a pair of Spectral DMA 90s run as bridged monos (200w)
Had more than a few conversations with Kathy; after 8yrs, Kathy sent a letter along with the midrange driver saying that my warranty was up and that I would have to pay for replacements. Sold them shortly after. |
As I posted early on this thread; I owned Thiel 3.5s. Flew to Seattle, WA from Juneau, Ak then ferry to Bainbridge, Island, then drove to Silverdale, WA. Auditioned them at "Nuts about HiFi" with a pair of large Krell monos which I could not afford but sounded Wonderful !! Bought them, knowing that I had MY speakers! Air freighted them to Juneau. Only the grill frames were damaged. Kathy Gornick sent me a new pair include shipping for $70. Visiting family in Chicago for Christmas, I bought a pair of Forte' model 7, class A monos. Were not the big Krells but were CL A. Still own them. Kept me very happy through the long winters. Blew midrange and tweeters (seemed at least (1) each year.) Kathy would send the needed driver before I could get the damaged driver sent to her ; under warranty / no charge. Thiel will never be the same again w/o Kathy and Jim.
Played the Thiels with and without the equalizer. Mostly liked them with the eq at 40; 20 made them too muddy. Finally moved back to Chicago. Packed the Thiels in my van ( was not taking any chances w/ MY speakers! Finally got a Spectral system ( DMC 12, pair of DMA 90s used as bridged 200 watt monos) MAGICAL combo! No longer used the equalizer. When Kathy sent my last midrange driver with a letter saying this would be my last driver under warranty after a full 10yrs ( I bought them used) I sadly sold them to a guy that was very happy after a (1) LP side audition. Took me 8-9 years to finally settle on the Avalons I now own. Reading this thread; as long as "Rob" works and is allowed to work; Thiel owners should be OK. But I would start my search for a new pair of speakers before he is gone. Without Jim and Kathy, Thiel will never be the same. Will take time to find a new speaker! Suggest you might start with Avalons. |
jafant, If you like air and space; try Spectral- you will have what you like. Magical Thiel 3.5s and Spectral |
Guys; All that have contributed to this thread have almost made me miss the 3.5s. And even though I have had a Spectral/Avalon system; Occasionally I still thought about the 3.5s. "Until a month ago." I acquired a pair of Pass 160.8s. I drive them directly with a Manley Steelhead. EVERYTHING the 3.5s (PRO AC, Sonus Farber, Wison,Avalon system was and "better" in every way. Have not rolled the tubes yet. As of now; tight, Musical, LOW bass, (no need for an equalizer or sub,) midrange to "die for", Highs shimmer and decay, Everything is natural and present. I am probably at my final "Forever" system???? At least that is what I am telling my wife. She says; she doesn't believe me! But admits that this is the best system/room we have had!
I must say that it has taken many years to achieve this and that the Thiels are what kept me going. I surely say; Reference Quality at prices that are unbeatable. Buy a pair of Thiels for my other room? No. (Time to downsize some gear) The Manley, Pass, Avalons - Satisfy!!!
Final thought; Vinyl, Tube phono, Class A SS --- RULES !!! For Me. For Now!
Everyone, You're a great group! Enjoy your journey! Best Wishes. |
jafant, Yes I have run an All Spectral system for (20) years. All the required MIT ICs, Speaker, PCs. Currently MIT Oracle MA X.
The best cables that I have used! And they love my current system: Manley Steelhead, Pass 160.8s, Avalons. The Oracle's are hard to beat!
Yes the Spectral 4000 is a fantastic player. But I am a Vinyl Guy. (83) CDs , approaching (3000) LPs. $10,000 for a used Spectral CD is not an option. 25yr old CD connected to the (1) Manley input w/Oracle's makes CD tolerable to warmup system or listen while doing other things.
MIT has updated their line. The Oracles can be had for fair prices on the used market and well worth the price. If you can pay even the used cost. Best Wishes |
jafant, the Spectral 4000 SDR is a SOTA CD player. Goodwins high end has one used for $9000. |
jafant,
Do you have your Thiel CS 2.4 SEs playing music? Or do you sit in front of them with album / CD in hand pretending that you are listening and smile? Smile?
Amps, CABLES, CD players, TTs; you keep asking for recommendations regarding all this equipment. You have kept this thread going, but do not indicate whether you have a working system. Are you just a dealer nightmare? Or are you actually going to buy some gear and listen to Music? Do you plague dealers with audition after audition and then try to find the gear on the web to get Value? No wonder brick & mortar Salons are going under.
It's the Holidays! Make a decision! BUY some gear! Listen to some Music. Support a dealer that has given you auditions. Buy some gear from someone on this site so they can have a great Holiday.too!
What does your system comprise of? TT, CDP, pre-amp, amp, ICs, speaker cables? Come on; Clue us in already! Just like unsound; what IS your budget?
Happy Listening! If you are. |
I live in Chicago. Have (5) Salons within a (1hr) drive. More within a (2hr) drive. Over the yrs; All have Provided in home demos at some point. Lived in Juneau, AK. Talk about living in an Audio Void. Traveled to Seattle,WA. Once a year to demo gear. Bought my Thiel 3.5s in Silverdale, WA. Air freight to Juneau. Since July 2016; Goodwins High End - Long term demo (2 months) of Spectral 30SV ; Reno HiFi - pair of Pass XA 160.8s ; Which I BOUGHT !
If you're a "serious buyer" w/ a budget & willing to pay shipping ; there are many dealers willing to ship you equipment for Demo. Including dealers on this site.
Budget and Serious Buyer; Are Key!
This is the 21st century; I have my "beefs" w/ all the carriers. Including air freight. It is what it is! But obstacles can be overcome.
NO BUGET = NO SYSTEM
No budget does NOT = Reference System
Intergated in Reference System?
Visit more dealers in 2017 ? You mean this thread will go on for another year?
I recommended a used CD player. Your response was that it was too expensive for you. So there is a limit. Again, I ask your BUDGET??
"Cabling will be top of the line in a synergistic way w/ the gear..."Again, I ask your BUDGET??
Use Your Ears and BUDGET. Buy some gear already! Stop talking the talk; walk the walk.Your smile will get bigger when you can actually listen to your Thiels.
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jafant,
Audio Consulatants- bought my Forte' electronics from them
Pro Musica- bought my ProAc speakers from them
Quintessence Audio- bought my first Spectral electronics and Avalons from them
Holm Audio - bought my Manley Steelhead from them
Essential Audio- bought my Kuzma TT from Brian at Axpona in April |
jafant,
Which cables are you using with your Thiels and Music Direct catalog?
Audio memory and notes from years ...... past are a pipe dream.
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Cabinet, Drivers, Crossover and NO EQUALIZER. Speaker position will reward you.
Monoblocks will do more than you hoped for. |
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jafant,
I would be interested to see your system update.
Thanks
nkonor |
jafant,
Which cables are you using to listen at high volume through your Music Direct catalog? |
For now, updated system page |
Had Thiel 3.5s. Reference in their day. Midrange to die for. Tried to replace with newer Thiels and they all did a lot right, but none had that 3.5 midrange. Just my
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IMHO, Avalons do everything the Thiels did and better. Image, Soundstage, Bass, Smooth,Coherent. I drove them with Spectral electronics, but Pass is the match for me. IMHO some tubes are a must with either Thiels or Avalons and vinyl; But both benefit from SS power. |
oblgny,
Bought the Avalons new. Mine our carbon woofers. The ceramics are bass shy. The ceramics are what I have seen for sale occasionally. Spectral owner for 20yrs. Pass does it for me now.
Best to you on this Journey
nkonor |
Guys,
Also, took me about 4yrs of Sonus Farber, ProAc, Wilsons to finally settle on the Avalons w/ Spectral DMA 360s ; now with my current setup.
All of you have been taken by Thiel legacy Speakers. I agree ; They are great Speakers for the $ on used market.
Nkonor; myself, I needed to move on.
Beat to All on this Journey |
Guys,
In general the 3.5s were the Thiels for me with a pair of Forte' model 7 monoblocks and then "Magic" with a pair of Spectral DMA 90s used as 200w monoblocks. When Kathy sent another midrange and a letter saying; No more drivers would be replaced under warranty! (Panic) I sold them and moved on. |
jafant,
I liked a pair of Martens at last years AXPONA. Just $125,000.00 |
Prof,
Audio memory from at least 15-16 yrs ago is on a macro level for the 3.5s which I had for 7-8yrs. At least once a yr. I would blow a midrange or tweet. Kathy Gornick would have the replacement to me before I could get the driver boxed and to the Post Office. You remember things like this! |
Oblgny,
I do not remember models but both larger than 3.5s. Neither had midrange of 3.5s but yes, you knew the bass was from a larger speaker.
There were (2) models of the Avalon Opus, ceramic tweet, mid and woof. ---- And ceramic tweet, mid, carbon woof with a small subwoofer firing out the bottom/ The model I have. No need for a separate sub with proper placement in treated room And Pass monoblocks. |
Guys,
Looked and found Avalon receipt. Delievered November 2005. 12yrs, Must be time for new Speakers. I have been thinking, Rockports for last year or so. No problems with Avalon drivers; Well broke-in. |
Prof,
Musicians listen at live levels all the time. Me? Just some of the time.
nkonor |
jafant,
Yes, System I heard at last years AXPONA was total 250k with CAT electronics. I expected intimate knowledge and first hand experience for this kind of recommendation; Not what you can read on the internet and suppose, dream and take a wild guess at.
My post says; I liked a pair that I heard. Not that I was buying. Rockports are what I am interested in and would easily match with my Pass amps.
I think you surf the web and waste dealers time auditioning cables and equipment.
Stick with your Thiels and buy a system that you can post and listen.
Regards,
nkonor |
jafant,
Why? Is something wrong or some deficiency with my current Pass amps?
Thanks
nkonor |
You should stop your wannabe nonsense. The CDP and XM radio in your vehicle is not Reference System. Fine line between fantasy and reality. You are firmly in fantasy.
Happy listening
If you are?
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prof,
On a better note. Good luck with the Thiel 2.7s. In my search to replace my 3.5s. Speaker size was a concern to me due to thinking that we would be moving back to Alaska at a future time. Anyway those thoughts have taken a back seat to other issues.
You sound like you have the knowledge to make them work in your HT system; but will they be as satisfying as the 3.7s for music? I tried for 4yrs to find Speakers to replace my 3.5s
I came to the conclusion that a fairly large speaker is required for coherence and satisfaction through the frequency spectrum. But as I learned that the room was really the major component; I realized through careful placement and acoustic treatment that you could fully enjoy a large speaker system in a variety of rooms.
I always told my wife that I intended to downsize one day. She just laughs at me now. Yes smaller Speakers and subs could keep me satisfied for a bit; but long term, a full size/ full range speaker is needed. Just my thoughts.
Best Wishes on your Journey
nkonor
P.S. --- Ended up with a bigger house, multiple rooms, plus storage capacity. |
prof,
I tried and tried. IMO you cannot put together a coherent full range system out of disparate parts. That's what designers do. You can augment a full range system down to 16hz ; but a giant killer monitor/sub system??? You can amaze people (even yourself) for a period. Then the cut, the one note that your heart is waiting for and Blah! Your make an adjustment and all is good until the next BLAH!! Bleep+#!?% moment.
I suspect coherent full range is what you need and have.
There is no substitute.
Best to you and All on this Journey,
Norbert |
ivan_nosnibor,
I applaud your heroic efforts. Yes, truly full range is where it's at. A fairly reasonable facsimile for me took a pair of Wilsons and their 300lb+ sub. The music, the room, the air came alive! (23'x35'x14') room. Can only imagine what 2 of the beasts could do. My neighbors (even at low volume) lived in fear as their coffee cups and wine glasses vibrated on their table.
Lucky to be able to go to the Green Mill lounge to see Patricia Barber. Ricki Lee when she is at one of the small venues.
You became the designer/builder through your efforts. Took a longtime. When I get home; I just want to fire up the system and a "big fatty" and lay back.
The monitor/sub is ok for a weekend getaway. Even full range systems are just that; A System.
HP was right all along; Live Music and a night out is extremely pleasant.
All our our efforts are still not the Real Deal. Again, I applaud your effort. Enjoy what You have accomplished.
Best Wishes on your continued Journey
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prof,
Confusion and Hesitation are problems I continually see on this site. Been there, done that.
Down sizing is not a great option.
Through this thread; l realized that I have had the Avalons for 12yrs. Changing from a 20yr Spectral owner to Pass amps is what made the Avalons sing even better.
I have been considering a pair of Rockports for about 1 1/2 yrs now.
Alan Goodwin- Goodwin's Highend offered me a pair for 15k and I saw a pair offered in Denver for the same. Maybe when they get to 10-12k will I really start considering them.
But they are Not a downsizing. Just 50lb heavier and a "bit larger"
To replace the Avalons will take a larger Avalon or maybe the Rockports. But I will need to live with them for at least a year before I give up the Avalons I now have. 12yrs of a satisfying relationship that has even grown better since the Pass amps joined the system will be hard to replace.
Final caution, Do not let the 3.7s go without serious consideration.
You will play hell to replace them.
Best to you
Norb
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Promise for the 3.7s is how I would hear it. |
prof,
Thanks for giving everyone a heads up on your components. Nice system/systems.
Camera or iPhone will easily post pictures; Even a digital knucklehead like me figured it out.
I am still using a 25-26 yr old JVC CDP, but the two TTs are up to date.
I knew that you had to wait for the 2.7s. Will wait to hear what you decide.
Right now, I am waiting for my back to heal from surgery, so I can install ceiling panels and do final tweeking of room acoustics.
I do have (2) dedicated rooms; So I do not have challenges of you and others.
I should really think about reducing everything; but I do know how hard it is, when you have gotten so much pleasure from certain gear.
Best Wishes to All |
drrsutliff,
Tube pre , SS Power and Thiels are a great combo. Enjoy.
Best on your Journey |
drrsutliff,
Congrats on the new home, dedicated room, use of "Jim Smiths" book and the willingness to take some time and think things out.
Did you use a tape or get the recommended laser?
The laser will help you get that last bit of everything the Thiels or any speaker can bring to your room.
Dedicated line yet? Sounds like your enjoying already. Your Thiels are worth the extra effort.
Congrats again
nkonor |
prof,
Finally getting your 2.7s. My benchmark has always been my 3.5s. Took me years to stumble into a pair of ProAc Tabelettes. Finally a midrange that could sing to me. Keep them in a 2nd system with a pair of Forte' class A monoblocks and a Velodyne sub. An incredibly musical system. Just mates perfectly. I could never sell these Speakers/system.
Just had an amazing leap in my recovery from my back surgery. Was finally able to tweek some of the tube traps and diffusers. Will be a Musical weekend; Hope yours is too.
Best Wishes with your decision !!
Norb |
prof,
I know that your excited. Take your time for many good listenering sessions before you make a final decision.
Like I said earlier; a new speaker would need to satisfy me for a year, before I would give up my current 12year affair.
Happy that it is a Wow !! Speaker. Can hardly wait for you to be able to give a more in-depth take on them. I sure others are waiting with me and will settle for short previews whenever you put them out.
Enjoy and Best Wishes
Norb |
jafant,
I Thank You for All veterans on this 4th of July.
It was 46 years ago that my name was called from the manifest and I boarded my final flight back to the world.
I left Vietnam behind and 22 hours later was discharged from the service on this day.
I salute All that have Served and Thank All that remember us.
Happy Fouth of July
Peace
Norbert |
prof,
Thanks for taking a break to give us your 1st take of the 2.7s and comparisons to the 3.7s
Yes, I know that your wife thinks you have a lot of gear. The Speakers are heavy and a lot of work to move and adjust. She should be used to it by now and know that you are hopeless. Take your time. I don't think she will leave.
I have been able to visualize your comparisons and would concur with them; have gone through the same drill.
Do not want to voice to much to influence you even at a subconscious level.
You said, that you do sound work for film, so I know that the HT part is important to you. Personally, the HT is just Tricks & Treats for me.
The music satisfies the soul.
Best Wishes on your Journey
Norb |
prof,
I have a different take on spiking Thiels. I don't know if the 2.4, 2.7, 3.7 have a better system/ outriggers as mentioned earlier, but the 3.5s just had holes in the base that accepted the provided spikes.
Shortly after getting my 3.5s; "Sound Anchor" came out with dedicated stands for the 3.5s. I bought a pair and never looked back. You could use the new threaded spikes that came with the stands or use any spike you desired or Stillpoints of today. The benefit was not subtle. The other benefit was that you could finally level and plumb the Speakers. A not subtle benefit.
I tried tilting various speakers over the years but the Thiels are time aligned already. You can try it as robinbarbour suggests. Personally I think Speakers are designed to be setup symmetrically, level and plumb. The more precise; The better. Hence, my use of a laser since Jim Smiths book. 1/16" accuracy. Another; Not Subtle benefit.
Any height difference due to spikes plus stands can be made up at the listening position.
Sound Anchor is still in business. I also had a pair of their stands for a pair of Wilson "Cubs" Anyway, very well made and beneficial to bass, soundstage and imaging.
A lot of listening and moving Speakers and more listening is enjoyable work , but still work .
If you are able; Take your time.
Best to you
Norb |
prof,
Plus All Thiel owners. Time and Phase Aligned. 1/4" with a tape or 1/16" with a laser ; Not Subtle Differences.
Best to All on this Journey
nkonor |
Can you elaborate on what makes the Les Paul 3.7s special? Different than standard production 3.7s?
Better X- over parts? More closely matched drivers? , ????.
I would heed dicockrum's advice. Under powered is probably one of the things that causes the most damage to drivers. Don't know your amps but worth avoiding damage in the 1st place.
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prof,
I am happy that you have been able to take some time to decide the 2.7 / 3.7 debate. I know that there are more issues than speaker vs speaker. So; as earlier, I encourage you to take even more time if you are able.
It is obvious that a lot of members are anticipating your decision (including me) . Just curious.
Anyway in hell to keep Both? This would be my predicament.
Went for another MRI this morning; Need to consider another round of non invasive treatment , another surgery or just tough out more therapy.
On a better note: Solved my hum issue in left channel. Needed to switch from single-ended to XLR on ICs between Preamp and Amps. Dead Quiet, deep black background. More detail. Did not lose any of the traits of my Manley Steelhead. Just happen to have a Pass pre and extra set of ICs. Very happy with system.
Can finally focus on finishing room.
Just remember; whatever your decision. You'll play hell to reverse it.
Best to you
Norb
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Scarce and Beautiful Condition; would concern me on the future used market.
Which pair exhibit more "continuousness" together?
Full range / Full size ; There is no substitute.
A great small speaker remains so IMO.
DIY like Ivan is not my cup of tea.
Just my thoughts.
Best
Norb |
prof - HaHa !
dicockrum - I agree; Unless your ready to go wireless.
prof - IMO ; even more important to take used market into consideration.
Don't know if your still pondering your choices or I missed your decision on 2.7s and 3.7s
Best to you |
I wonder how long they will keep Rob and supporting the actual Legacy Speakers? How long has Rob been with Thiel? How old is he? Maybe thinking about retirement himself ? Those who have Legacy Thiels that are in great shape and sound great need to consider these thoughts. Will Thiel actually make Legacy models on "Special Order" and at what costs? For how long?
As my 3.5s kept losing Midrange Drivers and Tweeters and Kathy finally said my warranty was up ; I decided to move on. With the current leadership at Thiel, My doubts would grow more concerned.
Best to All |
