Why does most new music suck?
There is lots of good new music. Not so much great new complete albums, like ones from the classic rock artists referenced. Recordings are mixed differently to fit the ways most people listen to music these days. "The Times They Are A Changing" is old hat. They have already changed. Nothing wrong with appreciating old stuff, music, gear, vinyl, tubes etc., but these things are not where it is at these days. Music is actually probably more diverse than ever, incorporating more elements of more styles from around the world than ever before. Good modern hifi gear that does digital well is the ticket. Then all the old stuff is the icing on the cake as needed. Try breaking old listening habits like looking for good albums to buy. Start a music server put all the music you like or think you might have any chance of liking on it. Think of it like the ultimate jukebox....all the music you like or have interest in at your fingertips. If you do not know what to play or listen to next for whatever reason, let the computer make the selection and enjoy not knowing what might play next. When something wets your fancy, read up on it and seek out similar or like music. In essence, getting up with the times has a lot to offer, but you have to be willing to explore new waters and break some old habits. |
"people who think new music sucks are not exploring music enough, there is plenty out there." Most popular music is more of a fusion of styles these days. You hear it more and more even in perhaps the most mindless forms like dance music. Its a good thing I think. Music evolves. Elements of older, purer forms like rock, soul, blues, and others get infused into newer concoctions that are more varied. That's the artistic process. No music stands still. It evolves over time, for better or for worse. But the same basic ingredients go into it. Variety is abundant these days everywhere you look. Music is no different. Its just that there is a lot of new stuff mixing older and newer ingredients. And overall it all sounds better to me as a whole than ever before because recording and playback technology has (surprise surprise) actually IMPROVED, like it usually does. Seldom resembles the music I grew up with 30-40 years ago though. You always have to be willing to cut through the crap to find the good stuff. Most all music that has EVER been availble in any forms is still available one way or another today, often remastered to sound better than ever. ANd that all besides all the new and varied stuff that comes out. Its easy to get lost and drown in inforamtion or even just music these days, and just give up. Big mistake! Unless you are content just living in the past. NOthing wrong with that, but it does not support the argument that most new music sucks. MY 12 year old daughter, who actually has excellent musical tastes for her age, would disagree. |
Without civility, any hobby like high end audio best characterized as a form of OCD would self destruct in no time. Can high end audio continue to survive? We'll see. If it doesn't, I'm probably still not quite ready to predict the end of civilization as we know it. Unless lead there similarly by other OCD types, you know the ones.... |
ITs mostly just the culmination of what started back in the day largely with Elvis, The BEatles, etc., ie popular music is now all about money, not just mostly. Also increasingly visual these days given that music alone does not sell as well as it could. It helps to have appealing visuals. So my suggestion is forget about "popular" music. Only very small % is widely popular. Plenty of ways to find the "less popular" good stuff these days, more ways than ever. Stop complaining and just find it! BTW I hated a lot of popular music from the 60-80s when it came out and like more of it alot more these days. Time always tells. Will same be true 20 years from now? Probably. Just a different group of people bitching. Do what nonoise suggests, find ways to expand and get out of your comfort zone. DOing that can benefit us in many ways as we age including helping to find new music we like. Maybe a nice glass of wine while listening will help. Personally, I was born in 1959. In recent years I have learned to mine and find a lot of great music, popular and otherwise, that came out before the time I became of age and got indoctrined by the Beatles and rock music. ITs amazing how good a decent remaster of DUke Ellington from even the 1930's for example can sound these days when done well. I've even digitized and put all my families old 78s on my music server, some of which are quite old. I find its mostly all good. I will say though that i tend to mix in modern "popular" recordings in smaller limited doses, but there is a ton of other less popular newer recordings that I enjoy regularly. It's all out there just waiting to be discovered and listened to. Can there be any doubt there has never been a better time to be a music lover than today? Music is a blessing! We have a huge variety, so much so finding and choosing can be harder than ever. IF you are a music lover, just count your blessings and enjoy it! If your local public library is anything like mine, periodic trips to the library to seek out new music to listen to can be a gold mine. |
For classic rock lovers that are looking to branch out, one of the best places to start is internet station Radio Paradise. My other favorite internet station to help broaden musical horizons from a broader roots music perspective other than rock is WWOZ in New Orleans. THis station knows what American roots music is all about! |
"I get disheartened to hear audiophiles say that music is shit, dead , over." I think that in many cases like this, with "audiophiles", the user has high or particular performance/sound quality expectations that are not being met for whatever reason that creates a barrier to discovering and enjoying new music. I have suffered this curse myself over the years from time to time. You tend to listen to the same old stuff because you get pleasure from the familiarity that compensates from just not enjoying what you are listening to. OR in some cases, people really only like certain music or songs and that is it. Whatever floats your boat. ITs all OK. Its only usually a problem when one gets stuck in a pattern of blaming others for not fulfilling their own personal needs. |
Nice post Simao! Generally, the higher ones standards, the more most things suck. Therefore, one must conclude that in the world of audiophiles, most things musical are sub par and hence suck. The solution is selective moderation. Have high standards but be able to lower them when needed to gain a better appreciation of all things and to be able to better relate to the world as a whole. If you love music and cannot do this effectively when listening to music that might be different or not meet your expectations going in, then I would suppose that one should be in fear of being intolerant. After all its just music. Bad music really hurts noone and some will think it is good. An open mind and tolerance are good things to strive for. Not always easy... |
I find new popular music that I like two ways: 1) via my 12 year old daughter 2) when I hear something I like at the gym in one of the various group workout classes I attend every week. THis is where I find the most new popular stuff I like. Maybe its because the music I hear suits the task at hand, so my perspective tends to be different. I like to be able to find new popular gems. It makes me feel like a kid again, when I discovered a lot of music mainly by listening to top 40 radio stations back in the day. But yes, so much good music to listen to, and not enough time to do it all.... |
"Something alluded to but not fully fleshed out is that as I grow older, I find myself less tolerant of what I consider bad music. I think it's one of those rights I think I've "earned" having been here long enough on this mortal coil. Expressing that right is generally tolerated by society as I can be thought of as "that old codger", or something along those lines." I'm still in denial about being as old as I am. But I do have an AARP card now and I ask for and get senior citizen discounts at the movies. I suppose eventual codgerhood for us all is envitable. Beats the alternative I suppose. |
" It certainly has a catchy beat (which would probably tempt me to leave it on if I heard it while driving), and yes, she's a nice looking young woman. On the other hand, her voice strikes me as mediocre at best, the "plot" of the video is not to my liking, and the sonics don't do justice to the sax (even allowing for the fact that it's a video on YouTube)." So its a mixed bag for Al with some good points. My assessment is not too far off. I like the fact that its a pop dance song and the song and main riff is saxophone based, so I like the sax part. So musically, my conclusion is it has some good points so does not suck. Then there is the video (which I had not seen prior to today), which is not the music, and not really relevant for assessing the music alone. I link to videos mainly because youtube videos is probably the place to go these days when one wants to reference music for free these days, among all the other things. Music videos there are the modern equivalent of watching MTV in the past I suppose. I think the video is well done, and no doubt the singer is attractive. That's good for videos and entertainment careers overall but not relevant to the music itself. Other than that, I could take it or leave it. |
That song is used in several recent Les Mills syndicated workout classes. The gym I go to uses these. That's where I heard it. It works great there, it struck me as somewhat unique on first listen, and grew on me more over time, so I downloaded the single from amazon and borrowed the CD from the local library when I saw it there. So one thing I think I learned from this is that teh context in which a song is heard makes a lot of difference in regards to whether one thinks particular music sucks or not. It sounds a lot better to me having experienced it initially in the gym I think. I enjoy it at home as well, but I would normally not be as inclined to take a liking to a tune like this just sitting at home and listening. |
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced oontext largely determines how people respond to music. People relate to music based on their experiences. Its an emotional thing. If it registers with someone, it does not suck. Someone relates to it, even if not you. If noone or few people ever do, then I would say it is sucking material. Popular music registers the most. So it cannot suck. Attitudes can change over time. if people continue to relate to it years later, that is the ultimate test. Time always tells. There is no right or wrong, ggod or bad combination of notes, chords, whatver without a person out there somewhere to appreciate it or not. |
"I must admit that I am shocked! No, really, I am amazed that musical drivel like the recording on the link to "Does THIS suck?" can be thought to do anything BUT suck. " The publsihed numbers on the video would seem to contradict that. They indicate many more in fact liked it than not: Like 460,012 Dislike 13,456 Obviously anyone is free to not like anything, but how can something that so many people like "suck"? Maybe those who don't like it are in the minority but have the good taste and the other not? OR maybe those who don't like it just can't relate to it for whatever reason? I think the latter to be the root cause and the musical tastes associated to be a function of the individual's unique perspective of things, which can only subjectively be deemed better or worse than any others. Just trying to make some interesting conversation.... |
Goose, Here are some lyrics from a few Zeppelin songs that has raised a brow or two over the years: Whole Lotta Love "way down in side, woman, you need love" "I'm gonna give you every inch of my love" Lemon Song "Squeeze my lemon, til the juice runs down my leg, squeeze it so I fall right out of bed" Great band though..... |
"IOW, my observation is that it is (with several notable exceptions) popular music posters here are narrow, backward looking, and quite conservative in their musical taste and would likely reject rap in a heartbeat." Anyone who would propose Audiogon members in any way is representative of the musical tastes of the world at large would definitely have some blinders on. This is a "high end" sight after all. It's easy to quantify high end prices. Maybe even what high end audio sounds like. But specify what music is "high end" or not? Please! High brow maybe.... Remember that music started way before Bach and others in his day started to elevate it to appeal to the huge minority upper classes and more highly educated population segment that classical music tends to better reach and appeal to. Its a tough argument to elevate the blues above classical music, or jazz, and vice versa. Same true of rap. Again a lot has to do with individual experience regarding what music one relates to or not. Old guys sitting in a room listening to their fancy stereos is just one example. And they might be an endangered species.... |
"Someone suggested that I get out of my comfort zone and listen to some new music via Radio Paradise for example. I listened, searched the play list and the reviews and I found that the highest rated music isn't new but older stuff." That's very true. A classic is a classic. But there is still lots of newer stuff that rates well and does not "suck" accordingly. Maybe some future "classics" in the making. Its worthwhile considering an account on Radio paradise. The community features there are quite good and conducive to learning more about the music played. |
"Why does most new music suck"; IOW, why does most new ROCK AND POP suck?" Regarding "rock", that genre, in its purest form has past its prime and is clearly on the decline in terms of popularity. Pop is where it becomes more interesting in that pop is a more open book. WHat is popular changes over time. Plus the trend is towards more globalization of pop culture along with all the rest of modern civilization. That is where things get interesting.....more diversity from more cultures around the world get thrown in the pot. This is why an open mind is important. Music has always evolved and always will. Rock was an evolution of "rock and roll", in its original form mostly about electric guitars and percussion, but much evolved in many directions since. So rock at its core is still mostly about guitars and percussion. There is plenty of that still being created, but its a limited form in its purest sense, so fresh new material that matches the "classics" becomes harder to find. It'll always be a tough job comparing current music to classics. Classics are classics for a reason...they've stood the test of time and achieved widespread "pop"ularity. NEw "pop"ular tunes will either retain and grow in popularity over time or be mostly forgotten. A lot of good music of all genres will NEVER be or become polular on a large scale, but this area is typically where the riches lie. But of course, mining for gold is never an easy task, it takes patience and perseverance, and dare I say an open mind towards trying the next thing that presents itself that has some promise. |
Goose, If you look at the Radio Paradise listener ratings, I think you'd find a correlation between older tunes (ie those regarded by the programmers as "classic" to some extent) and the highest scores in that they have withstood the test of time. Most older tunes that retain airtime score very high, but newer tunes do also but to a lesser extent. As time mvoes on, I think one would find this trend continues, and the more recent tunes that retain airtime will continue to rise in overall rating. New or newer tunes will still garner more of a mixed reaction, but tunes that persist on the playlist will probably improve their scores as well over time, not decrease. We'll see... |
"There are a few folks on here who seem jaded and disingenuous toward excepting great new music . As a music lover, that bums me out." It bums me out too when a music lover cannot find good new music to enjoy. I have been in that trap myself in the past. Lots of causes and not uncommon. AN easy trap to fall into. |
Sorry, that one didn't get me. Here's one of my favorite more recent discoveries: Muse Uprising Just about as good as it gets start to finish. |
"Interestingly enough, as all these bands seem to be trying too hard, the effort it demands to like it is commensurate. It's just work. Where's the fun part? " Csontos, Say what? I understand liking something new might take effort, but where does the inference that the bands are also trying too hard as well accordingly come from? That comment reeks of Narcissism, not an uncommon trait that many of us might share, but worth being aware of if one truly has an interest in keeping an open mind. |
In the good old days of music/audio (the 70's for me) I used to listen to the radio to discover new music I liked. Tougher these days, especially if one is not disposed to like modern pop music. I qualify but only to an extent, because I constinue to find new stuff I like, just not as frequently perhaps as in the past. My 12 year old daughter has no problem whatsover, and her musical tastes are quite broadly developed I would say for someone her age. Fortunately, internet radio and music services provide the avenue for most who want to discover new music these days. If one can't do it there, I might go so far as to predict one might be doomed to a life of musical boredom. Better find another hobby! :^) |
Another way I discover new music without incurring too much risk or expense is to look for CDs on the cheap wherever I might find them, Goodwill store, yard sales, ebay, amazon, wherever and just take a chance for whatever reason. Then the CD goes onto my music server. THen I set the player to random play. Now I've programmed my own music station with a lot of music I have not yet heard but think I may like. When a track comes on that I like (most of the time in fact) I have no prior expectations so I cannot be dissapointed. I find something to like in most everything that comes my way. And as an "audiophile", I suppose, it mostly all sounds great! If it did not, I would be less disposed to spend the time needed listening. But that's another story... |
"You haven't answered my question, as I've noticed you don't actually address the meat of any one's post." Which question? I like David Bowie. Pretty awesome! No I was not kidding. I do believe the simplest of melodies are most pleasing, and that the norm is mediocrity. What am I on? Cholesterol medication. That's pretty much it. |
Rok, I can only speak for myself. Regarding The Porcupine Tree cut, I relate to it personally in two ways. First, I like it artistically as a musical attempt to tell a story. The track is a cut from a fairly recent PT concept album "Fear of A Blank Planet". The music is best categorized probably as progressive or art rock, a form still alive in pockets around the world but that has fallen out of favor since the 70's overall as a rock music form. PRog rock attempts to stretch rock music in various ways, much as classical composers attempt to innovate and stretch as well as simply entertain. Many will not relate to a specific work and prog/art rock is often described by those as "working too hard" to do something new and different and artistic. Thank God Beethoven, Mahler, Stravisnsky and others never listened to those guys! Second, the concept album FOABP is about modern pop culture as it relates to youth today and the negative effects that can result. I have two young children of the age that this story is about. I find a lot of truth and warning and things to think about regarding their well being in todays world as a result. The album is extremely dark and depressing in its message. That is its intent. I relate to the message it delivers. I saw PT perform much of FOABP live a few years back. I can assure you the crowd there related, just like the kids in the video with their arms extended. Not everyone's cup of tea for sure.... I do not expect everyone to like it, though I do. |
Tube, The PT tree concert I attended (FOABP tour) was also excellent. It was my idea to go and dragged a friend along as well who also enjoyed it. It was the loudest concert I had been to probably since college. The sound was stellar as well as the performance, the best heavy metal volume live rock concert sound I have heard, and in a venue that has proven hit or miss for me over time. YEah, I know SW has been around a while. HE is 8 years younger than me. Still making new music though that has appeal to multiple age groups, especially since adapting some heavy/death metal type elements into some more recent material. |
"*But it's always been the simplest of melodies that are the most pleasing" "Rja, mediocrity is the norm for everything, not just music." Taken together, it seems that the simplest of melodies are most pleasing, and the norm is mediocrity. So the dilemma is that the most pleasing music also happens to be mediocre. I'll buy that. Goose, does this answer you original question? Who wants to be mediocre? It probably does "suck" relative to things that are "really good". Nothing new here these days though. Most things are average, pretty much by definition. Average is well, average, it kinda "sucks" I suppose. But the devils in the details regarding good/average/sucks. Ten people will give ten different answers, so back to the drawing board. Damn, I though I finally had this one nailed.... |
"there is only one Led Zeppelin" For sure. and only one BEatles... and Dylan... and The Who... and Elvis... and so on.... I used to always be looking for the new "fill in the blank" but eventually learned to avoid that trap and appreciate each act for what they are (or are not). Tough to do sometimes once the bar gets set high! |
I find that these days I tend to like a lot of specific songs or pieces of music that I hear, but do not levitate much to many new artists in particular. I think that being older and more interested in the music than the much younger people making it is the reason. Nothing against them, just that there is an age and life experience difference between myself now and most rock/pop artists. I still find its mostly the same old geezers that I tend to like still as artists in that I can relate to them more I suppose. |
I like Reznor and Nine Inch Nail's music, and respect his opinion, but I think he like many underestimate the ability of others to make good music. He is a star, and a tad of narcissism typically goes along with that, buthe is only a few years younger than me and I suspect many up and coming artists and producers would disagree. SO let me get this straight. All us older guys whose stars are fading don't think the newer generations have it in them to make good music anymore. That is laughable but not unexpected to me. We all think we know best. |
