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Another soundstage question

There are a couple of soundstage related threads running on the amp/preamp section and they reminded me of a question I’ve been meaning to ask without hijacking those threads. The speakers are Vandersteen 2Ci and the system along with their placement is giving me a real deep and relatively wide soundstage - but not much further to the sides, but I’d like the height of the soundstage be little higher. The speakers are on the sides of a bay window, about 10’ apart and with heavy drapes pulled on either side and about 2.5’ behind the speakers. Much lighter curtains cover the bay windows for privacy. In my seating position that is about 10’ away from each speaker the top of the soundstage is just about the top of the speakers, sort of like I’m sitting at the same level as the musicians. The depth is realistic but I think the height needs to higher to give a better feel for the height of the singer standing in the middle and the rest of the band scattered at different levels within the stage. So having said all this, is the soundstage height mostly a function of the electronics driving the speakers or its the size/shape of the speakers, e.g., speaker height, tilt, etc., the listening placement, or a combination of all of the above. Thanks.

128x128kalali
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only way to find the *absolute* best locations for the speakers so as to get the very best soundstage - all things being equal - is to use the out of phase track on the XLO Test CD. When the sound on that track is the most diffuse, i.e., when the sound is coming at you from all around the room, from no particular direction. Then you will achieve the best sound (all things being equal) including soundstage, when the sound in IN PHASE. Attempts to obtain correct speaker locations by ear are less effective, it’s like trying to solve X simultaneous equations in X+N unknowns. the best you can usually do by ear is find local maximums.

Another tip: most speakers are too far apart. It's an old wives' tale oft told that speakers should be in an equilateral triangle and or toed in for best soundstage. That’s part of the problem with trying to get a soundstage. The middle of the soundstage goes MIA when the speakers are too far apart. Room treatments go a Long Way towards reinforcing the illusion of the sound coming at you from all around the room on the XLO out of phase track.
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,645 posts
 
Thanks geoff, I'll look for that track. I have a relatively deep bay window between the speakers with thick curtains pulled to the sides behind the speakers, helping to create a nice and relatively deep soundstage. What I'm striving for is to get "right" size height. I adjusted the front spikes and added a little tilt and that helped somewhat. I maybe expecting for too much given my moderate system but experimentation is free and I'd like to exhaust all my options before I consider it done. Thanks for all the guidance.
skanda
40 posts
 
completely agreed on the tube pre. every system needs tubes somewhere :)...i haven't heard some of the newer ss pre's like pass xp30 or esoteric c03x so maybe those are capable of a similar dimensionality.

i've had good luck widening my speakers a bit and pulling them about 1.5 feet away from the back wall. i am space challenged but found a way to pull this off. i got more depth and width from this. the tube pre (arc ls17se) adds some midrange bloom which sticks the performers in my face
2channel8
634 posts
 
Thanks for the topic, @kalali. I have been working on the same thing. My soundstage is centered about ear/eye level. I don't know why that feels too low; but it does. My speakers are Canton Ergo 1002DCs,  with tweeters about 35" off the concrete floor and mids at 42". My ceiling is a drop type, unfortunately, only about 7' high in most places. Speakers are 7.5' apart, 2.5' from the wall, and I sit 9' back with no wall behind me for 15'. Side wall distances are 3' to left and 20' to right and all walls are broken up with furniture. Canton recommends no toe in; but I prefer 5 degrees.

Raking back made things worse. Removing carpet between me and the speakers actually helped. Recently I raised the speakers about 2.5" and it seems to have raised the vocals about a foot. I would really like to see what removing the drop ceiling would do; but I'll never get away with that, even in the basement. Any other suggestions? Beside tubes.
perfectpathtech
226 posts
 
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