Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
jafant

Thank You- David (dhoff01) for the kind words and thoughts regarding this thread. As you have read here and other audio forums, I am passionate about this brand of loudspeakers. Mr. Thiel did indeed create something special per his designs. I would like to think that there is a model / vintage for every music lover. Best of all, these speakers are easy to match with tubed or solid-state electronics. Additionally, the various classes A A/B and D fare well to the listener.

For me, the real fun begins and ends with aftermarket cables and power cords. It is really incredible at the number of designers and manufacturers in this niche' aspect of our hobby. Moreover, fine tuning of one's system is key to obtain its full potential. The products are out there, entry level to full -on state of the art,  covering all budgets.

Yes, I do believe that you are the only contributor utilizing pure Class A currently. This is a good thing as it evolves the discussion at issue.

Likewise, I enjoy Jazz and Rock music (and a little Classical for good measure). Thiel excels with these (3) genres and completely sold me on this brand during several auditions.

Happy Listening!


David, I have tried a class A Krell 402 paired with an ARC Ref5 tubed preamp and my Thiel CS3.6s, but preferred my current ARC Ref5SE - Ref 150 combination. It was probably a synergy problem with preamp-amp, but instead of trying a different preamp, I went to a better tubed amp.

Here are a few albums that get regular play on my main system due to quality music and recording, IMO:

Beck - Morning Phase
Phish - Fuego
Eagles - Long Road Out Of Eden
Shelby Lynne - I Am Shelby Lynne
Wilco - The Whole Love
Suzanne Vega - Nine Objects of Desire
Robert Plant and Alison Krauss - Raising Sand
Rickie Lee Jones - Traffic From Paradise

SOME QUALITY DEEPER CUTS:
The Wailin' Jennys - 40 Days
Tift Merritt - Bramble Rose
The Greencards - Fascination
Kim Richey - Rise
Nice! Beck’s Sea Change is on my regular rotation. Haven’t checked out Morning Phase yet. The Suzanne Vega might also need to be added. And I’ll be searching Tidal for those last 4..

If you haven’t already, give Rickie Lee Jones’ Flying Cowboys a try. One of my favorites..

David, welcome! In answer to your question as to why more Thiel users don't use pure Class A amplification: cost. And heat.

To my ears, though typically advantageous, Class A is not the only criterion of the many upon which an amplifier's sound is determined. 

 Jim Thiel's power recommendations were based upon standard solid state 8 Ohm ratings (with a level of quality expected), where it could be assumed that the power doubled down as impedance halved, not the impedance load of the specific speaker.

Let's take your 3.7's

https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-specifications

 for example: with power recommendations given as 100 - 600 Watts per channel. Of course actual power needs will vary with rooms and desired volume levels amongst other things. But, for the sake of this post, let's fall on the old audiophile axiom that one should first consider starting with double the minimum power recommendation, which in the case of the 3.7's would be 200 Watts per channel. 200 Watts per channel of pure Class A amplification comes with some expense.

Many high quality amps runs their bias towards Class A before sliding into Class AB. For example I run my 3.5's with their  recommend power of 50 Watts minimum 250 Watts maximum (with hints of 300 Watts max).  My Threshold amplifier is rated at 250 Watts (8 Ohm) per channel. The first 20% (50 Watts) biased towards Class A, then sliding into Class AB. Now into my 3.5's 4 Ohm minimum impedance; as the impedance is halved, the power doubles to 500 Watts per channel, but the Class A bias output is halved to 25 Watts per channel.

This not only true for some Class AB amps. Some amps that claim pure Class A output really only do so in their standard 8 Ohm rating, but as the impedance halves and the power levels double; their Class A outputs halve as well, with the increased power correspondingly sliding into Class AB.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/threshold-stasis-sa12e-power-amplifier-page-2

Of course some amps that tout pure Class A output, really don't. 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/krell-ksa-250-power-amplifier-when-class-class


We know that power consumption is not linear but rather exponential, and musical content can demand many, many times it's nominal power requirements. I haven't measured the bias output, but I suspect that much of the time my amp is behaving towards Class A bias. But now with the capability to cruise at 500 Watts per channel all day long (with short term headroom doubling that to 1000 Watts per channel).  

Now some might suggest that some of these power recommendations into actual impedances are outrageously high. To those may I remind them that with Thiel's and most typical speakers for that matter, that as impedances drop and power output increases that speaker sensitivity decreases correspondingly. So for general comparisons one might see the wisdom of the standard 8 Ohm ratings. Or not?

Would I prefer more Class A output? Probably, double that would be dandy. All 500 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms Class A? Sure! But, for my money I'd probably move up the line in speakers first, and settle on less Class A output with Thiel CS 5i's.
  

 Thiel's weren't made as cost no object super premium products, though in their time the CS 5's were knocking on the door. Given the cost of pure Class A with enough power to drive most Thiel's, some of which approach 2 Ohms (and some with challenging phase angles), I think many might find the money might be better off spent elsewhere. For example with the 3.7's, and given enough room, I can easily see someone spending the money on Thiel's own subwoofers before committing the funds towards up to 600 Watts of pure Class A amplification (if you could find it). As a general guide (and with adequate funds available), perhaps a reasonable starting point might be amplification meeting the minimum power recommendation with Class A and the maximum into power recommendation sliding into Class AB. If one could afford to provide the maximum power recommendation all in pure Class A output into actual minimum impedance load, perhaps all the better. But be prepared to pay!




unsound,

Excellent synopsis! I did not realize the class A bias would halve with impedance drop! We might want to think about amplifier distortion doubling as impedance halves also.
David - 
Dave Matthews - nearly anything
Beach boys - Pet Sounds
Cake - Comfort Eagle
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - 4 way Street
The Doors - The Doors - and - Morrison Hotel