Please Read and express your feelings and opinions....


I noticed  that lately or maybe for the last five yrs, there is so much arguments,name calling, attacking cables , speakers , components makers and more, more of disagreement with members, even Audio dealers are being attack here...Very few know how to apologize when they are wrong.What can we do as Audiogon members to improve our communication to each other? How to give the informations, recommendation to members who need it? This is without involving Audiogon, any opinion or ideas ,  For me this is fun and place to learn in audio...thank you all
128x128jayctoy

Hi Kosst

It's not really my place to agree or disagree, I deal with the physical audio variables. I don't look at recording or playback as a "Fixed" entity. I see testing and measuring technologies as an advancing science, even though this science (as with any) is constantly learning and implementing. 10 years ago seems like a lifetime away by todays latest R&D. For example what JA did 10 years ago is somewhat obsolete now. I'm sure he would say the same thing. Bob Hodas would no doubt agree as all the up to date measuring gurus would have to. Testing is always advancing and I would guess by the time your debate is over with Geoff and others we will be looking and listening to hologram sight & sound reproductions. I mean they're really just around the corner, and then all of HEA will be an archive of listening only. So measuring to me is like a building block. Is it human yet? No of course not, and it's not, because of the points Geoff and others are making. Is it going to be? Of course it will, we see this in moving making now.

However here's where the issue comes down for me.

Lets say I make a recording of a hall, or am previewing someone else's. I go into the tunable room and tune it in for me to look at the height and mate it up to the actual recording. After I'm done another listener goes in and says my call is inaccurate for him. He then tunes up the same recording to his ears so he is now hearing the hall as he remembers, or wants to. I do this level of listening on an ongoing basis and have since around 1989. From time to time, since then till now, measuring folks are welcome to come do their thing and see if they can capture what is taking place for each person as an individual and a more in general sense. Where this stands now would more than likely need to be in a tunable room that is both flexible and environmentally adaptable. That's a tall order for this thread to engage in, let alone some of the folks I have worked with or studied their approach.

To test an measure this accurately I can help from a variable physical structure, but I would think that the testing itself would need some pretty special equipment to be able to make a more than snap shot polaroid type of result. It's possible that my room is the most advanced to date in regards to the variables, but that's again at best only half of the equation. I think the two worlds (human & tools) can meet, I just haven't seen it yet. I'm sure though getting closer every day.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

Hi Soundermn

I agree, but I also think that the topic shift has turned into a nice example for the OP. For me anyways, it has certainly shown a few things. It has shown how different sides of a question can be answered and also how people react as their paygrade is established. Over the last couple of days I have thought "what a great thread to show in social studies". It would be interesting to see a class tear this apart and take side. I bet we would fine several different sides and not just two or three.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

The statement Geoff made about spacial cue not being measurable is patently false and we do measure it and replicate it through all manner of trickery at the recording and play back ends. 

Where's the argument? I'm not understanding why people persist in the name calling and splitting hairs. 
Another perspective. I attend a fair amount of live, acoustic, concerts and IMHO none of them have the soundstage that many audio systems have.

The whole imaging and soundstaging thing is a parlor trick inside a parlor trick that was perpetrated by The Absolute Sound. All it has helped to do is to take the focus off of correct tonal balance and put it on, IMHO, what is, at best, an artifact of the recording process.
The whole imaging and soundstaging thing is a parlor trick inside a parlor trick that was perpetrated by The Absolute Sound. All it has helped to do is to take the focus off of correct tonal balance and put it on, IMHO, what is, at best, an artifact of the recording process.
Now there is a post with some substance that I agree with!