2. A system with powered sub should use a XOver to remove the lowest frequencies from the mains and is preferrable ot trying to ’blend’.Disinformation abounds here.
If the mains are capable of true 30Hz, IMO there is almost no need and even less probablity that adding subs will improve the system unless the mains are placed for WAF rather than sonics.
4. Ported subs? Never!
Ahhh--Problem solved. Adding a REL sub-bass unit...
I'm wondering how many audiophiles have given up on loudspeakers preamturely, or have gone down the rabbit hole of cable swapping to "fix" an issue with their speakers.
I grew up hating subwoofers and home theatre. I still haven't come around fully to home theatre. I've warmed up though. I've had my own issues with otherwise great loudspeakers, including a pair of Klipsch Forte IIIs. I was very frustrated as I'm feeding them from a respected tube integrated, I've tried them with a 300B amp, and I've toiled over positioning.
The issue that I was having was the mids and highs were dominating in my room--despite the size of the woofer and passive radiator. Some recordings were just too bright. Sometimes I felt the speaker, however "alive" and dynamic was not imaging well, needed soundstage help, and so on.
I hate to say the REL T9i I threw in the mix today is a panacea because there's always stuff to tweak. Yet I have experienced this before with a Sumiko subwoofer. Adding one to the mix and dialing it in so that it's barely audible has brought everything into focus. Everything is more relaxed and energetic at the same time.
I'd say that the REL is a room tuning device above all. I have a larger room (I think it's 15 wide, 24 long and 10 high--in feet). I'm not sure how much I'd have to spend or what different choices would solve this otherwise. From a guy that used to reject subwoofers out of hand (my bias came from the 90s home theatre craze) I think that they might be necessary in the lion's share of systems with the lion's share of speakers. To say, "you don't need a sub" with speakers might be true depending on your room, but I also think in most situations you are missing out on what they can do for so many criteria that are not necessarily in keeping with adding bass--e.g. soundstage, focus, imagine, fullness, taming treble, etc.).
Finally, I really wish that I could try some other brands as many audiogon members recommended so many respectable names. I ultimately went with REL because of its philosophy, my similar experience with a Sumiko sub (within the family of REL or somehow related), and the high frequency input connections.
I grew up hating subwoofers and home theatre. I still haven't come around fully to home theatre. I've warmed up though. I've had my own issues with otherwise great loudspeakers, including a pair of Klipsch Forte IIIs. I was very frustrated as I'm feeding them from a respected tube integrated, I've tried them with a 300B amp, and I've toiled over positioning.
The issue that I was having was the mids and highs were dominating in my room--despite the size of the woofer and passive radiator. Some recordings were just too bright. Sometimes I felt the speaker, however "alive" and dynamic was not imaging well, needed soundstage help, and so on.
I hate to say the REL T9i I threw in the mix today is a panacea because there's always stuff to tweak. Yet I have experienced this before with a Sumiko subwoofer. Adding one to the mix and dialing it in so that it's barely audible has brought everything into focus. Everything is more relaxed and energetic at the same time.
I'd say that the REL is a room tuning device above all. I have a larger room (I think it's 15 wide, 24 long and 10 high--in feet). I'm not sure how much I'd have to spend or what different choices would solve this otherwise. From a guy that used to reject subwoofers out of hand (my bias came from the 90s home theatre craze) I think that they might be necessary in the lion's share of systems with the lion's share of speakers. To say, "you don't need a sub" with speakers might be true depending on your room, but I also think in most situations you are missing out on what they can do for so many criteria that are not necessarily in keeping with adding bass--e.g. soundstage, focus, imagine, fullness, taming treble, etc.).
Finally, I really wish that I could try some other brands as many audiogon members recommended so many respectable names. I ultimately went with REL because of its philosophy, my similar experience with a Sumiko sub (within the family of REL or somehow related), and the high frequency input connections.
- ...
- 39 posts total
@steakster Disinformation abounds here.Prefer it if you can refute engineering facts. 2. - Loudspeaker designers spend great effort creating crossovers for LF/Mid/HF bands. Mathematically it's almost impossible to mate a 12" driver to 8" or smaller driver in a vastly different box with no filter and get seamless integration. The level may be relatively flat, but the phase will be a nightmare. Until one has heard a minimum phase error system playing all 10 octaves, one has never heard bass correctly reproduced. 4. - Ported speakers have large amounts of time / phase shift, and the lower you go, the worse it gets.: "Bass reflex cabinets have relatively poor transient response, causing "smearing" or a longer resonance of the bass notes. Though the sound coming out of the port may have the same phase of that from the front surface, but it can never be at the same time, thus, the extended bass energy is really noise disguised as signal. The disguise works only when the sound is a continuous tone (one of the reason why some people prefer some particular kind of music for their audio system), but reveals itself most apparently at reproducing percussion sound." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex#Limitations As a great musician friend once said on hearing my system "Those little speakers aren't putting out all that gorgeous bass?!?!?!?!?" Informed of the sub, he stated "Every other subwoofer I've ever heard just boomed!!" |
You know it really depends on your main speakers whether or not they would benefit from a subwoofer. As big as my main horn speakers are, they never have produced just enough bass to satisfy me even with more powerful amps,. So a subwoofer was added with excellent results. You want a sub that sounds tight and tuneful (very musical) that creates a seamless presentation. Now in my other room I have huge but heavy custom made cabinets with 15 inch woofers, they are sealed enclosures, they are capable producing thunderous depth & bass when called upon. I would never need to add a sub to such a set-up. |
- 39 posts total