Uni-Protractor Set tonearm alignment


Looks like Dertonarm has put his money where his mouth is and designed the ultimate universal alignment tractor.

Early days, It would be great to hear from someone who has used it and compared to Mint, Feikert etc.

Given its high price, it will need to justify its superiority against all others. It does look in another league compared to those other alignemt devices

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1303145487&/Uni-Protractor-Set-tonearm-ali
downunder
Hello Dertonarm,
I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about using the Uni-Protractor with tonearms that do not allow the cartridge to be moved backwards and forwards in the headshell, like the Schroder and the SME V, IV etc.This question was raised by T. Mackris but has not answered yet, I think.
Surely with arms like these the crucial thing is to determine the effective length as accurately as possible and then set the appropriate pivot-to-spindle distance, again as accurately as possible.
The producer of the Mint Protractor is of course aware of this problem, and asks that, when ordering a protractor for a given cartridge with non-standard cantilever length (distance between stylus tip and mounting holes), customers should either indicate the cartridge manufacturer's specification of the stylus tip to mounting hole length or, failing that, provide a close-up photograph of their catridge viewed against a measure.
The problem here is clear enough: since the point of a dedicated protractor like the Mint is to provide a highly accurate alignment template for a given effective length, the whole enterprise is compomised if the effective length cannot be determined accurately to start with - and the photograph technique is by its very nature approximate.
It was this consideration that stopped me from ordering a Mint for my SME V & Benz combination.
Can the Uni-Protractor (or any add-on that you have in the pipeline) help with this problem?
My approach so far has been to measure the effective length, using the trammel that comes with the Feickert Protractor. This is simple enough: first choose a point on the template disk and rotate it until the stylus drops exactly on this point. Lift the stylus and block the turntable so that no movement is possible. Then place the spindle hole of the Feickert trammel over the point (so that the latter is in the middle of the hole), and then measure the distance to the centrepoint of the arm pivot (easier if you have removed the 'bridge' on your SME). Read off the effective length, and then use Conrad Hoffman's template generator (or similar)to make a template for precisely that effective length.
Of course there are several points in this where inaccuracy can creep in: (i) in trying to ensure that point on the disk is exactly in the middle of the spindle hole in the trammel base; (ii) in judging that the vertical pointer is exactly over the centre of the arm pivot; (iii) in reading off the measurement from the scale on the trammel.
Despite these possible sources of inaccuracy, this method has given me by far the best alignment so far.
Sorry for boring everyone with this detailed description, but my question is: can the Uni-Protractor - maybe via some sort of add-on - provide a way of eliminating the approximation inherent in the above system?
This is a genuine question, not a covert plug for anybody else's protractor.
Best regards, and congratulations on what you have created.
Peter
Dear Thom_mackris, you've hit the nail's head. Although it was Syntax' who deserves the credits for the phrase you quoted.
I think we all too often lightly and needless give away quality of performance right here at the very start and without realizing. This is the "very core point" I wanted to address with the UNI-Pro. Enabling everybody to very precise alignment with ease and universality.
Cheers,
D.
Pgtaylor, Dertonearm …

It goes without saying that we're venturing into the fine " ether" of tonearm setup. With respect to SME's and the upper end Schroeder tonearms, the effective length changes require a bit of trigonometry, or a CAD program to determine, and producing a protractor dedicated to a particular cartridge needs to take this into account.

Follow me …

1. The effective length is the STRAIGHT LINE distance from the stylus tip to the tonearm bearing.
2. The cartridge is offset, per Baerwald/Loefgren/Stevenson geometry

So, merely adding the effective length difference will not give you the correct results (close, but no cigar). A cartridge whose stylus is 1mm further forward than a statistically "normal" cartridge increases the effective length by less than 1mm.

I just modeled a Tri-Planar on my CAD tool. I chose this arm because I had the numbers handy: effective length = 250mm, offset angle = 21.949 for Baerwaald. I assumed a 40mm long headhell (the offset component) for this exercise.

A cartridge with a stylus positioned 1mm forward of the statistical norm increases the effective length by.9275mm, for a net effective length of 250.9275mm. Simple addition would predict 251mm, or a variance of .0725mm (.0028"),

.0028" is within the threshold of audibility for a high performance analog rig, which is why everyone on this thread has justifiably been whipped into a frenzy over a better tool.

The takeaway from this is that any protractor generated for arms like the SME V, and the upper end Schroeders, needs to take the effective length, the length of the ofset section of the arm wand, and the proposed geometry into consideration.

I posted the drawing to the following URL for anyone who's interested: http://www.galibierdesign.com/images/forum/Eff_length_Model.pdf.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier
Tom Mackris.
Of course you are right when you say that the extra stylus tip-mounting holes distance cannot simply added to the manufacturer's stated effective length for the tonearm. In fact I was aware of that. What I was trying to illustrate was a way to measure the actual effective length (rather than calculating it) by effectively drawing a line (but in fact using the Feickert trammel to simulate it) from the stylus point to the arm pivot 'as the crow flies' (and then measuring it). Surely this (leaving aside for the moment any practical difficulties in achieving it) would give the correct measurement (?).
regards.
I understand what you were trying to accomplish, Pgtaylor. This was an illustrative example for those who haven't worked through the math.

BTW, do you really think that the Feickert has the precision to measure to .003"? If you can do this with that tool, you're a better man than I am.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier (the "h" is silent)