SUT decision: Ortofon Verto vs Ortofon STA6600L

Have you checked out the Bob's devices 1131 blue?

One you audition on of Bob's blue series SUT's (the 1131 or Sky 30) running into the MM section of your phono you will be amazed at the improvement. Built & backed in the USA & Bob is a wealth of information. {Check Art Dudley's Stereophile review.]

Go a set further: Try Bob's amazing cables. The synergy between Bob's cables & his SUT's is perfect harmony.

If you act quickly, before RMAF closes, Bob may extend to you a "Show Discount."

[My 10-13-13 post was filled with embarrassing typos. I am hoping that the moderator(s) will delete that post in favor of the corrected version below.]

Once you audition one of Bob's blue series SUT's (the 1131 or Sky 30) running into the MM section of your phono you will be amazed at the improvement. Built & backed in the USA & Bob is a wealth of information. (Check Art Dudley's Stereophile review.)

Go a step further: Try Bob's outstanding cables. The synergy between Bob's cables & his SUT's is a perfect harmony.

If you act quickly, before RMAF closes, Bob may extend to you a "Show Discount."

I have heard about Bob's product. I know they have good reputation. However, how good are they compared to an Auditorium23 or a Ortofon Verto? Has anyone made a direct comparison ?

The issue here is that the RCM phono stage has 52-76db of gain.
Even at its lowest gain setting a transformer with a ratio of 1:20 or more will end up with too much gain and possibly overload the phono ( its solid state, they dont have a lot of head room ).

1:10 turns ratio which will give you 20db plus 52db = 72db.
Cartridge will output 0.5mVx10=5mV into the phono

1:20 will give you 26db plus 52db = 78db.
Cartridge will output 0.5mVx20=10mV into the phono.

As a comparison my Marantz 7 ppreamp will amplify an MC with 0.3mV output with no noise and gain to spare with 60db including the line stage.

None of the responses above have considered these issues.

06-18-10: Jcarr
Hi Rene: Normally I wouldn't recommend a step-up transformer with the Delos unless your phono either has low gain or good overload margin.

The 0.6mV output from the Delos is high enough that it caused clipping when we matched it up with a Nagra BPS, which (according to Stereophile) has 51dB gain in fixed-coil mode and 62dB with the built-in stepup transformer in the circuit. Jumpering out the transformer cleared up the situation. I presume that the 9V power supply of the BPS is to blame, and that using a different phono stage with a higher power supply voltage would avoid the problem.

If you use a transformer, I suggest 1:10 ratio, loading at the secondary, and very short, very low-capacitance cable connecting the transformer to the phono stage.

Boosting the output from a Delos with a 1:10 ratio will present your phono stage with a 6mV input, which should be quite comfortable for all MM and MI-level phono stages.

If your phono stage has 60dB gain or more, you won't need a transformer (unless you have very low preamp/power amp gain, or very inefficient speakers). If your phono stage gain is in the 40-some dB range, you will probably need a headamp or stepup transformer. Again, your results will be affected by preamp/power amp gain and speaker efficiency, but likely not enough to let you get by without the extra gain stage.

The situation is more unclear with phono stages in the 50-some dB range. Here I don't have any firm recommendations, other than suggesting that you compare with and without a transformer or headamp. Perhaps you could first find a vintage unit of low price and the right properties, then change to a higher-quality unit once you've verified that things work.

FWIW, we also make the Erodion (www.lyraconnoisseur), which is a stepup device, but this has a 1:20 ratio, so I wouldn't recommend it for the Delos unless your phono stage gain is in the low 40-some dB range.

hth, jonathan

My suggestion - get a better phono stage.