802 diamonds with class d amp

So you bought B&W ?? 802 Diamond series loudspeakers?
Hell yeah you can get way better sound from them than with using Rotel amps.
I am not fond of MAC products..
But plenty of amps arpund worth looking at.

Rotel is not in the same league as brands like Classe and Pass Labs. Classe with your speaker is a very good combination. It is a very balanced overwhole sound. The thing I miss is a lot of depth ( cause of the poor B&W filters) this was the main reason why I sold my 800 Signature speakers. Mctosh is less controlled. Take a listen to Pass Labs with B&W. Pass Labs is more precise and has more depth compared to Classe.

As a long time B&W owner and fan several points.

1) As good as the Signature series was the D series are much better, specially the 2nd generation "Diamond". It has many upgrades over the 1st D. Check it out Bo1972.

Cabling makes a difference as well. And give them time.

2) The Rotel are not a match for any speaker in this class.
I am not a fan of MAC with the Diamonds.
The only Classe I like are the current generation monos with the B&W.
I think the Pass Labs class A amps sound great with just about any speaker. But the B&W, as efficient as they are, really like a lot of watts or amperes to sound best. So a new Pass Labs might be out of your budget.

Other possibilities are Spectron (Monos), Spectral, or the new Hypex Ncore Amps. There are two versions, a DIY NC400 and the OEM NC1200. I have heard both and own a NC1200 by Merrill Audio. If the OEM is out of your price range the DIY is very easy to assemble. They are class D but are competing with the best of Class A A/B in and above its price range. I will say that when I had the NC400 in my system it made many a fellow Audiophile Club members say wow. However when I put the Veritas by Merrill Audio in my system it was the first time the full potential of the 802D speakers showed itself.

Now we all have our likes and dislikes. Some like a warm sound and others want a transparent and others a dynamic sound etc. The Hypex Ncore will make music.

So try in your system, if you can, anything you want to purchased.

I listend to the D as well. Because depth was still poor I did not want to go further with B&W. B&W shopkeepers tell the same story. I want to play far behind and even beside the spakers. B&W is still very poor in this area. In the absolute sound this is a pre. Without a 3 dimensional deep and wide stage you are in the 2 dimensional league. @ dimensional audio= standard audio. Because a cheap amp does play at the same way. I played a few times with my own recordings with 802D and new Classe gear. Mannnnn depth was soooo poor.

I can't speak to class D amp options having no familiarity with them. I have B&W 804 Diamonds (the current 2nd gen) and use Musical Fidelity's M6PRE (class A) and M6PRX (class A/B, 260w dual mono) which pair nicely with 804 Diamonds and didn't put me in debtor's prison. MF makes an M6 500w integrated that lists new for $7000. I suspect it would work well with 802 Diamonds. There are a couple of M6 500i demo units listed on Agon right now both under $5k. Just a thought. I have no connection with either seller.

I don't seem to have the depth issue you indicate. What sound differences will I notice with a better amp?

You first have to understand what the differences are between the talents/properties of a Rotel and a Pass Labs for example. Also the difference between how wide and deep a speaker can make the stage. Because B&W does not make crossovers what can give you an exeptional deep and wide stage. Like Musical Fidelity ( I owned it, sold it for a long time and I even did audio shows for Musical Fidelity) is not very good at giving a deep stage. There is only a little of depth. Every brand even if you are talking about an amp, source or speaker have there own properties/talents. There is a very big difference in how the stage is projected between all these brands.

With the B&W and Musical Fidelity components that I'm using and given their price points, soundstage width and depth is acceptable but definitely not exceptional. For me, the ability to reproduce the sound of different instruments with realism and clarity across high, mid, and low frequencies is a more important consideration than soundstage width and depth. In these areas the B&W and MF components I'm using are exceptional given their price points. Certainly if I could afford Pass Labs amplification, I'd be waving goodbye to MF and using something else.

B&W with MF is a very good combo. Both miss the most important part in highend audio. This is depth and playing even beside your speakers. MF also makes expensive amps these days. Compared to brands Like Pass Labs there is still a lot missing. This is not only in de way a stage is build. But also in sound realism.

I spent some time moving my speakers ever so slightly around my room tonight. I can tell you it made a world of difference in depth and dimension. Even with my class d amp I wanted to cry at times with the clarity and sound!

+1 Cyisone. Find the right sweet spot for proper placement of your speakers in your listening room and this will affect the depth and dimension of the sound field far more than the brand of amp being used.

After hours of careful listening and minute changes in placement, my Vienna/REL/Parasound combination does it for me. Incredible depth, dimension and imaging. But it took some effort on my part to study and realize that the listening room is a component too. Amps are not magic pills that will suddenly give you the depth and dimension one is looking for.

Depth becomes better wenn the crossovers are perfect. This is still the weakest point of B&W. I am in this business for 15 years now. I played with 802N and 800S for over 8 years. Wenn you want to grow in sound realism and also in a 3 dimensional stage which is wide and deep. B&W is not able of giving this to me. The 800 series are improving during the years. But they still forget a very essential part in the absolute sound. In 15 years I did hundreds of tests with a lot of stuff ( cables, amps, sources,speakers etc) Always looking for the best. Because good never will be good enough for me. But wenn the quality rises the emotion and fun grows.

I can relate. It is incredible how much relief and joy can result from a simple repositioning of speakers. I suspect though that an amplification upgrade would still produce further easily perceptible and significant improvement. Either way, happy listening!

OK dude whatever. The OP comes on board asking questions about a fine pair of speakers he already has, B&W 802 Diamonds, and all you can do is slam them. But afterall, you have 15 years experience so you must be right.

I would suggest not getting caught up in any equipment issues until you get a substantial handle on optimal speaker location within your room. Location formulas are a good starting point. This can take months of incremental movements and serious listening.

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

B&W makes fine speakers, don't get me wrong. This is about the difference between a 3-dimensional and more 2-dimensional image. A nautilus top is exeptional good in indivividual focus. But less good in depth. The extra depth can make an image more 3-dimensional. Wenn you have a speaker with exeptional crossovers you can get a very deep and wide stage. Stage goes on for metres behind and even beside your speakers. Voices and instruments become a lot more loose from eachtother and palpable. You hear a big difference were an instrument or voice is recorded, even in depth.

I spent some time moving my speakers ever so slightly around my room tonight. I can tell you it made a world of difference in depth and dimension. Even with my class d amp I wanted to cry at times with the clarity and sound!

Congratulations – you discovered that the elephant in the room... is the
room :^)

Oh boy, we'll have to add Bo1972 to the B&W basher list. What he says here doesn't have anything to do with what the OP is asking about. Jeez!

Thanks for all of your support and advice! It is really appreciated!

People cannot read well. I am not bashing B&W. I just tell the truth about there crossovers. It is as it is. There still fine speakers. I owned B&W 800N and 800S for over 8 years. I liked them wenn I had them a lot. I want to mention a fact about there crossovers. Shops who sell them agree with what I said.

Bo1972, exactly, "people cannot read well", the OP is asking about differences between his current class d amp and others, not about your opinion on b&w crossovers.

Many class d amps sounds not musical. Your speaker is exeptional good in soundrealism and in individual focus of every instrument and voice. The 452 is in sound a good match with the 802. But it is not in his pricetag for drive and speed. Pass Labs is better in drive ( XA.5 series)and also in sound realism. For less money Musical Fidelity is still a nice match. Or go for a used Primare A32. How much money you want to spend?

I was thinking of the $7500 - $10,000 range.

I would go for a Pass Labs XA600.6 used. It has a lot of drive, speed, extreme wide and deep stage. The right focus on the sound of instruments and voices. Sound to die for.

Do you mean the XA600.5? What kind of cash am I going to have to shell out for those?

You have to wait and see on the internet. I have seen them for 10.000 dollar in the past. Wenn you want to spend less go for a X350.5 or set XA100.5. The XA100.5 have also a lot of drive. Don't focus on the 100 watts in class A. Because it has a lot of dynamics as well. Pass Labs makes music. Your speaker is exeptional good in sound realism. Pass Labs will make your speaker let you hear the real sound of instruments like only a few can.

yesss 600.5, sorry

The B&W 802 Diamonds sounds great with Krell amps, especially 600E.

There is no XA600.5 only a X600. The A in the XA stands for Class A Watt amps. The X amps are Class A/B.

IMHO the Class A Pass Labs over the none Class A is the way to go if you decide on Pass. With the 802D you will need at least the XA100.5 but that might fall short. Then it would be the XA160.5. However the XA200.5 is the one to get but I doubt you will find that used in your budget. Maybe the XA160.5.

Please keep in mind that they are very heavy, large, can heat a small house and use gobs of electric. But they are great sounding in their Class A variant.

You asked about Class D in your OP. You should check out the Hypex Ncore NC400 DIY or the Hypex Ncore NC1200 OEM amps. Some OEMs provide in home demo.

For more info check the threads at http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=197.0

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore.html

Good luck with your choice.

I mean X600.5 of course

Pass Labs is better in sound realism than Krell. The nautilus top is exeptional good in focus and also in sound realism. Your speaker will get to a higher level in real live sound.